Mark Combs: Behind the Grind - The Startup Struggles You Don't See | EP 24

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A lot of people go, I just want
to do what you do.

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I know you don't.
No, you don't.

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You don't because you don't want
to pay the costs that I paid.

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Success is not an accident.
Everyday, small, little

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disciplines, that's how you
went.

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I discovered real quickly that
the people that had the letters

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outside of their name made more
money than the people that

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didn't have the letters outside
of their name.

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Turn your car into a university.
Six weeks later that website hit

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#1 on Google and the phone
started ringing and it didn't

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stop.
So that company went from not

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existing to bringing in a
million 8IN revenue in nine

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months.
I would charge the gates of hell

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with a water pistol for me.
But what I realized is I was

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trading time for money and it
was, and it was a trap and there

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was no way out.
Growing a small to mid sized

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business is like pushing a stop
train.

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You're going to need help to get
that initial momentum going.

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Administrative tasks like
payroll, managing health

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insurance, and HR operations
only add unnecessary weight to

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your already busy schedule.
That's why I'd choose Questco.

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They take care of all the behind
the scenes administrative and HR

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work, letting you focus on what
truly matters, growing your

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business.
Questco is your trusted

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outsourcing HR service provider
to help you get that train

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moving.
That's QUESTCO.

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Questco Visit questco.net or
call your local Questco

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representative Thomas Owens at
864-477-0843 to get started

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today.
Today's guest is a serial

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entrepreneur for sure, playing a
significant role in helping

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found three companies, Sky
Insurance Technologies, Self

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Insured Reporting and Healthcare
Reporting.

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He's an experienced veteran when
it comes to mergers and

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acquisitions, having recently
sold a majority of all three of

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his previous business ventures
to a private equity firm in

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2023.
Previously the CEO of Self

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Insured Reporting, Mark has now
launched yet another

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entrepreneurial venture, AI
Innovation Lab.

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On top of all this, he also
finds time somehow finds time to

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coach high school football in
his free time at Saint Joseph's

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Catholic.
Just down the road, it's Mark's.

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Mark, thank you for finding time
to be here with me.

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Yeah.
Man, I'm glad to know.

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You're a crazy busy guy with all
these different entrepreneurial

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ventures.
Yeah, well, it's, yeah, there's,

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you know, we all have 24 hours
of the day.

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Right, that's just what do you
do with them?

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Yeah, I used to say that you.
Don't sleep with them.

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Well, I used to say the
president of the United States

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runs the most powerful country
in the world, but now, based on

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political climate, I just, We'll
skip that now from now on.

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So what?
What?

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Prompts are you to get into
coaching football though on top

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of all this.
Oh man.

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You're extremely like business
driven.

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How do you think?
What makes you also want to find

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time for football?
Well, truthfully, but it kind of

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there was a situation that
happened and see how tactfully I

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can say this.
There was a friend of mine that

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had his son was at a football,
he was high school football

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player and he went and he said
he came home.

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He said, dad, I don't want to, I
don't want to go back anymore.

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He said, what's going on?
And so he started describing

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some of the things that the
assistant coaches were talking

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about that was so morally
offensive.

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And I mean, when I heard about
it, I was like, what, in front

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of these kids?
That's insane.

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And So what I did was, as I
happen to know, the head coach

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at Saint Joseph's High School,
Eric Cole, I played at Wofford

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College.
I was, I played five years

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because I had a red shirt,
medical red shirt.

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So I was #55 so when I left, he
showed up and he was #55 for

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four more years.
So yeah, the current head coach.

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And so I, I said, do you know
anybody at unnamed high school?

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I said, I, I want to go on staff
there.

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I want to go.
And he said, I don't, he goes,

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well, why don't you just coach
here?

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And I was like, huh, I don't
know why I didn't think about

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that.
I mean, I'm Catholic and very

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devout Catholic.
And I was like, huh, yeah, that

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sounds cool.
So it's, it's been awesome.

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Absolutely love it because you
know, I had this 30 years since

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I played.
That's cool you waited.

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So long and then got back into
it because I mean, I miss

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football.
I played high school football at

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jail, man down the road.
I want to get back into it

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somehow.
I don't want to put the time

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into it right now.
Maybe one day down the road.

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See, I wouldn't have been able
to either.

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I mean, even prior to to selling
the companies because I'm not

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ridiculously busy these days.
I mean for I got after it.

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I mean, from the time that I
graduated, I got after it.

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I mean, in terms of the number
of hours that I was working, I

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worked constantly.
And so, you know, and my whole

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theory was is that there's you
have to do from whatever you

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want, whatever I want.
There's this much work.

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Let's let's just say it's
there's this much work to get

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where you want to be in life and
have what you want to have.

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When do you want to do it?
So most people, most people will

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go, well, I just want to spread
it out evenly between now and

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me.
My 65th birthday.

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OK, that's fine, you can do
that.

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I want to do twice as much of
it.

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I want to do it all in 20 years
and so or in 20, you know, three

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years or something like that.
And I did.

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And so, you know, when you
looked at the number of hours

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that I worked and you go, OK,
And so, so now I have a lot more

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free time, but it's like, no,
I've already paid the cost.

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So it's interesting.
A lot of people go, I just want

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to do what you do.
I know you don't.

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You don't because you don't want
to pay the cost that I paid.

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Yeah, it's a big.
Price, you want my outcome?

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Yes, that's a lot different,
yes.

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I agree.
I've heard people say that

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before.
Did you have that same drive to

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work that hard right after
football or did you have a kind

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of a lapse of not knowing what
you wanted to do?

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Well, I didn't really know.
I don't know that anybody knows

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really what they want.
I still don't know what it is I

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don't want to do, but I knew
that some guys were making that

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say I played that fifth year.
And so I had a six more months

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of school and I had some friends
that had went to work with John

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Hancock.
They were selling insurance.

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They were in insurance industry
making good money.

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And I was like, I'll just go
work there.

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And so I did that and I
discovered real quickly that the

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people that had the letters
outside of their name made more

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money than the people that
didn't have the letters outside

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of their name.
And that was that was the extent

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of my research.
I was like, that's what I got.

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I got to have those.
And so that's right.

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So what?
Letters did you pursue?

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All of them.
So how it ended up happening

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was, is that if the insurance
industry is actually very good,

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especially the way that it used
to be done old school, they were

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fundamentally like teaching you
about being human.

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And so there were, you know,
like Jim Rohn, these

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unbelievable people that I'd
never really been exposed to of

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all this, you know, Earl
Nightingale and all this, this

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success literature and stuff.
And Brian Tracy and I remember

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riding down the road and 1.
I know one of your questions for

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me was what's the best piece of
advice you'd ever?

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Seen I like to end on that
sometimes.

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Yeah, well, I'm jumping ahead.
So I heard him say being in your

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car is not a time to be
entertained.

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You have to turn your car into a
university.

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I like that.
Yeah.

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And I stopped listening to the
radio for 25 years, like, pretty

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much.
I didn't listen to radio at all,

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and so instead I listen to books
I listen to.

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And what you find out is when
you do that, you can get the

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equivalent of an MBA about every
two to 2 1/2 years.

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Yeah, because that's how much
time you're spending in the car.

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That's so I'm doing my MBA right
now and we have like async

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lectures.
I'll listen to those in the car.

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Yeah, that's, that's the perfect
time to do.

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I do listen to the radio a good
bit.

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I should try to maybe limit that
some.

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But yeah, I like what you're
doing.

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That's crazy when 25 years
without listening to the radio

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hardly.
Basically, yeah.

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Was your music taste just
terrible?

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Yeah, I mean, I love rap music,
you know, and which doesn't

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particularly rely on my morality
anymore.

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So it's it's this conflict of,
oh gosh, what I really want to

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listen to, but I can't.
So I, you know, I became a

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certified life underwriter and a
chartered financial consultant.

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And so one of my best friends he
had said, he said Combs, there's

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this thing called ACFP and he
said certified financial

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planner, these people make
$100,000 a year.

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I said, Oh my 100, you couldn't
spend $100,000 a year and said

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that was the extent of my
research.

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I'm going to do that.
And so didn't even know.

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What it was?
Not really.

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It didn't matter because I
wanted the $100,000 a year and

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so, but I didn't have, I wasn't
old enough.

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And So what I had to do was I
was 20, 2 when I started.

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And so you had to be, I think 25
or so didn't hold the

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designation unless you already
were a COU and a CHFC.

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So a certified life underwriter
and a charter financial

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consultant.
So that's all right.

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So I'm going to become a
certified life underwriter, the

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charter financial consultant.
Then I can start studying for

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the CFP and I can become a CFP.
So were you studying like all

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the time or was this mostly?
An hour a day.

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Just an hour a day, every day,
Every day, OK.

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Every day.
Every day.

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And so I did that.
What Right.

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And then so you end up doing
that and you go, all right, so

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now in three years I've done
that.

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So I'm COUCHFC and CFP.
And then he said, you know, he

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said Combs, there's the same
guy, he goes, there's this thing

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called a CFA chartered financial
analyst.

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And especially somewhere between
I guess like an MBA and APHD in

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terms of the workload, it's
about 3.

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It's about 300 or so hours a
year of studying three years.

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And if you fail, you take
another year to retake it.

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They offer it once a year and
so, but they make 200 grand.

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I said, Oh my, you never, you
could not spend 200.

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Well, you can by the way.
But.

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You cannot, you know, you
couldn't do that.

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And so I did that.
And so we had a CFA and along

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the way I was registered health
underwriter, registered employee

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benefit consultant and group
benefit associate. 3 more, so 7

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total designations, goodness,
power a day.

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And so it's this gradual.
Have you ever read The Slight

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Edge?
I've never heard of it.

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Jeff Olson, it's a great book.
I mean it's one of the books

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that I'm giving to to the guys
that the players that are

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graduating this year.
Success is not an accident.

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And and that one, and it really
what it is, is that everyday

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small little disciplines are
that's, that's how you, that's

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how you win ultimately how you
get there very, very small

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things.
But here's here's the thing.

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It's kind of like taking a walk.
So if you go take a walk today,

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nothing is going to happen.
You study for an extra hour a

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day.
And this is a really good

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entrepreneurial lesson.
Nothing is going to happen.

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You do one podcast, nothing is
going to happen but the so, but

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it's the continuing to do that
thing.

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And so the tricky part is, is
that it's easy to do, but it's

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easy not to do.
And if you don't do it today,

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there's no consequence.
But that lack of judgement

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compounded over time becomes
massive or it becomes massive

225
00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:05,040
the other way by making correct
action.

226
00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:09,440
He gives the there's, there's a
parable of essentially, I think

227
00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:11,840
it's true, something called a
water hyacinth.

228
00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:17,120
And in a, in a pond that is
still, it'll grow up and it's

229
00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:21,200
just like a little Lily.
And if you put one in a pond, it

230
00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:24,880
will double every day.
And so after about a week, it's

231
00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:29,200
just a small little patch and
then you can't even notice it.

232
00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:32,360
And then it gets a little bit, a
little bit and it continues all

233
00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,520
the way until the 29th day.
And then it covers half the

234
00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:39,760
pond, half the pond on the 29th
day, and on the 30th day it

235
00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:42,000
covers the other half.
Yeah, because it double S that's

236
00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:43,960
right.
So the question is, when did it

237
00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:47,080
happen?
It happened all along, you just

238
00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:50,160
didn't see it.
That's the really tricky thing

239
00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:53,160
in terms of really life and
entrepreneurial and

240
00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:54,840
relationships and everything
else.

241
00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:57,600
You have to just do the right
thing because it's the right

242
00:11:57,600 --> 00:11:59,560
thing to do.
You studied every day from

243
00:11:59,560 --> 00:12:02,800
potentially three to five years,
got 7 different licenses.

244
00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:05,400
I studied now or 20 something.
OK.

245
00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,840
So you continue that habit on, I
should have known better, but

246
00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:13,320
was it difficult to transition
away from that role of CFP and

247
00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:15,760
then CFA into a new
entrepreneurial journey after

248
00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:17,880
you spent so much time
investment getting those

249
00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:22,160
licenses?
Not really, because I never

250
00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:24,200
looked at it.
I kind of, I think about it like

251
00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:25,920
this way.
It's like, what did you learn in

252
00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,280
4th grade?
The answer is you don't have the

253
00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:30,640
foggiest idea, but you do know
you went to 5th.

254
00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:32,760
Math or something?
But you know, you went to 5th.

255
00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:34,680
I learned whatever was necessary
to get to 5th.

256
00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,440
And so that's the way that I
treated it and and I just stayed

257
00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:41,440
curious.
I do think I talk about this a

258
00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:46,520
lot when we talk internally
innovation lab for artificial

259
00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:51,040
intelligence that the our
approach needs to be, how do I

260
00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:53,280
say it now, just completely
lost.

261
00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:57,880
Not, not prideful skepticism.
Humble curiosity.

262
00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:01,080
Humble curiosity.
Humble curiosity leads to

263
00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:05,800
action.
Prideful skepticism goes don't

264
00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,320
know.
And So what you've just said is

265
00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:12,520
that, you know, first of all,
that's prideful because the

266
00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:14,320
reality is you don't have the
foggiest idea.

267
00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:16,400
I mean, the older, the older
I've got.

268
00:13:16,680 --> 00:13:21,560
The thing I'll tell people now
is that I know half of whatever

269
00:13:21,560 --> 00:13:23,880
I believe is wrong.
But the real problem is I don't

270
00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:26,680
know which half.
So I don't have the foggiest

271
00:13:26,680 --> 00:13:30,480
idea.
Most of the time we are blind a

272
00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,720
lot, just kind of bumping into
things, making the best, trying

273
00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:35,640
to do the best job that you can,
but learning from it.

274
00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:37,840
Learning from.
It So how old were you when you

275
00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:39,400
started your first
entrepreneurial adventure?

276
00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:42,400
Well, I left.
I got hired away because, you

277
00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,520
know, I had these credentials
and then I was a good sales guy

278
00:13:45,560 --> 00:13:50,080
and then I got hired to go to to
Charleston I think when I was

279
00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:58,120
20, almost 26.
Paid me $130,000 a year in a

280
00:13:58,120 --> 00:13:59,600
company car plus Commission.
Nice.

281
00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:01,680
Yeah, it was great.
Yeah.

282
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:06,040
I mean, 2025 years ago, 24 years
ago, that was a lot of money.

283
00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:07,240
And I mean, it's still a lot of
money.

284
00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:11,640
And so went down to Charleston
and had a great business partner

285
00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:15,720
that he said, you know, we were,
we were six employees, but I was

286
00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:18,240
number six.
It was, well, it had been around

287
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:20,080
for a long time.
It was an insurance agency.

288
00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:25,080
It was small and he gave me an
opportunity to buy part of the

289
00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:28,200
company that you know, and the,
and the company be financed.

290
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:33,880
Yes and 10%.
And then because of performance

291
00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:37,440
and stuff, I, you know, in
negotiations, I got to where I

292
00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:41,320
owned 30% of that company and we
grew it from I think 6 employees

293
00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:45,240
to about 40 and sold to author
Jay Gallagher in 2011.

294
00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:51,800
So, and I made it an impressive
6 months post acquisition and

295
00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:55,120
I'll tell you what ruined me.
I mean, I was making, I was

296
00:14:55,600 --> 00:15:01,440
making $550,000 a year at 34
years old, 35 years old.

297
00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:06,640
But then I read the four hour
work week and it ruined me.

298
00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,680
All right, so the four hour work
week, work week, first of all,

299
00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,800
it's a hilarious book.
It's got in Tim Ferriss that

300
00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:17,560
dropped out of college.
He's he's since known for his

301
00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:22,280
podcast and he's super, super.
He's written tons of books and

302
00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:26,960
like National Geographic, you
know things on him.

303
00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:28,760
There's all kinds of stuff
accelerated learning.

304
00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:32,320
So, but he what he did was he
started the supplements company

305
00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:35,280
and he was making tons of money
and selling online, but it was

306
00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:36,840
driving him crazy.
He was basically having a

307
00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:38,480
nervous breakdown.
Why was it driving?

308
00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:39,880
Me crazy.
It's just too much.

309
00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:41,520
He just wasn't.
Yeah.

310
00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:43,080
And just all the insanity of
what?

311
00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:46,160
And so he was making tons of
money, dropped out of college

312
00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,520
and so he just, he just said I'm
not doing any more.

313
00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,960
And so he literally just packed
a bag and left and just went to,

314
00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:56,640
I think Europe and our South
America or something, and just

315
00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:59,240
went around for maybe six months
or so and know he had enough

316
00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:01,680
some money.
But then he built up the courage

317
00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:05,040
to actually look at his checking
account one day and he realized

318
00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:06,320
they were still putting more
money.

319
00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:09,120
He hadn't put contact with
anybody, but they were still

320
00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,240
somehow putting more money into
his account than they were

321
00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:13,640
taking out each month.
So he was like, what?

322
00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:15,560
The business was still running.
It was still running.

323
00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:17,120
He was still making money.
He didn't know it.

324
00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:21,200
And So what he went back as he
created a virtual infrastructure

325
00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,120
to run the business.
And he said, so people say, how

326
00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,080
many employees do you have?
And he said, so one employee,

327
00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:30,800
me, he goes, they go out, then
they're not interested, he goes,

328
00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:32,840
but the better question is how
many people does it take to run

329
00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:34,960
my company?
And that answer is 300.

330
00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,840
And so he created a virtual
structure to where he worked 4

331
00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,800
hours a week.
And so but what I realized is I

332
00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,360
was trading time for money and
it was a trap and there was no

333
00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:48,760
way out.
So the only way out was for me

334
00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:52,320
to continue doing it for another
30 years and get a gold watch.

335
00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,000
And that is not me.
That is not the way that I'm

336
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,600
wired and.
I knew that I had to front

337
00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:00,840
loaded that workload.
So you front loaded that

338
00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:02,480
workload building these giant
companies.

339
00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:06,560
Well, well, that one wasn't even
particularly giant, but we so we

340
00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:10,880
sold it and, and I'll tell
people and well, I made it 6

341
00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:13,680
months post acquisition and I,
because I knew I was, I had,

342
00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,800
had, I wanted to try other
things, right?

343
00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:20,000
I wanted, I wanted to push the
envelope about what can you do?

344
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:21,880
What can we even, let's not be
stupid.

345
00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,560
Let's don't risk it all, but
let's try something, let's push

346
00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,240
the.
But everything I'd ever really

347
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,720
kind of done up to that point in
my life worked well.

348
00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:36,360
That was the end of that.
Every single thing I touched

349
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:39,920
failed.
Everything to the point to where

350
00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:45,160
I went from being, you know,
having a lot of money, you know,

351
00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:50,400
a millionaire and to being dead
broke, dead broke, dead broke.

352
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,080
Like within a month.
Like you're not going to be able

353
00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:56,360
to pay rent.
What caused all the this you

354
00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:58,160
talk about?
The six month act was 6 month.

355
00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:02,200
Well, well, from there, you
know, I'd had lots of unforeseen

356
00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:05,440
events, the number of unforeseen
events that you just can't.

357
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,680
Life hits you.
It's the unknown unknowns, the

358
00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:10,960
that stuff that you just you
don't know and you don't know

359
00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:14,800
that you don't know.
And you know, some some

360
00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,440
additional money from the sale
was supposed to come that was

361
00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:19,520
supposed to be significant and
it didn't.

362
00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:24,240
And why I still don't know.
And that was a surprise.

363
00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:28,560
And then every single thing I
was doing, I was failing it.

364
00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,840
And so I said, all right, I just
got to go back.

365
00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:34,000
I mean, I was one of the best
people in the country in that

366
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,480
industry and I'd sold to a big
author, J Gallagher, big

367
00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:40,920
national company.
So I said, I just you have a non

368
00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:44,000
compete so I can't go work for,
you know, three young kids.

369
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,560
I can't I can't just go back
working for somebody else.

370
00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:51,560
Oh my gosh.
And so I said, you know, I'm

371
00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:53,320
going to need to come back.
They said we don't want you

372
00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:58,120
back.
What what now?

373
00:18:58,120 --> 00:19:00,640
What you going to do?
What you going to do is like

374
00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:09,510
now?
Thank you for spending your

375
00:19:09,510 --> 00:19:12,110
valuable time with us.
We know you're likely incredibly

376
00:19:12,110 --> 00:19:14,670
busy and we truly appreciate you
tuning in.

377
00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:17,680
We hope you're finding these
insights just as valuable as we

378
00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:19,360
are.
Throughout this journey, we've

379
00:19:19,360 --> 00:19:21,800
been fortunate to receive
incredible support with many

380
00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,120
people asking how can we help or
how can we support you?

381
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:27,280
If you haven't already, one of
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382
00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:30,840
is by giving us a follower
rating on Spotify, Apple Podcast

383
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:32,760
or whatever platform it is
you're listening on.

384
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:35,400
It just takes a second.
You don't even have to pause the

385
00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:37,960
episode and it makes a huge
difference in helping us bring

386
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:41,000
to you even more of a top tier,
high achieving leaders in our

387
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,160
community.
Thank you again for being part

388
00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:45,120
of this journey.
Now let's get back to our guest.

389
00:19:50,360 --> 00:19:55,080
And so that was a surprise and
so.

390
00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:56,880
How old were your kids doing
that?

391
00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:05,520
How old were your kids?
Probably 2-5 and seven.

392
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,560
Young kids.
Young kids.

393
00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:14,320
And so I had tried to consult a
little bit, you know, just not

394
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:17,240
being a broker or, but just I
was trying to help as much as I

395
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:18,880
could.
And then the Affordable Care Act

396
00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,480
came out and, and this whole
process was being done like of

397
00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:25,480
trying these other things with
this guy, Trent Hyatt, who's my

398
00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,960
best friend in the world.
Like I am this, I am almost as

399
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:31,000
close to him.
I don't sleep in the same bed

400
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,640
with him.
But outside of that, I am almost

401
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:35,400
as close to him as a my, my
wife.

402
00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,360
And he is the same way too.
I mean, he's it's a brother,

403
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:42,120
like way, way deep by because we
went through hell together and

404
00:20:42,120 --> 00:20:44,120
he had his own story and it was
terrible.

405
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:46,440
Like of just.
It's awful.

406
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,560
When did you meet?
In 2011, right when I sold that

407
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:55,440
company and he's 11-12 years
younger than me.

408
00:20:55,880 --> 00:21:00,520
And so it's, it's just a really,
it's one of the most valuable

409
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:02,760
things that I've ever had in my
entire life.

410
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:09,200
If you find someone like that
with the same, I think, you

411
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,920
know, the way that I describe it
because I'm, I'm Christian is,

412
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:17,160
you know, the Bible talks about
Jonathan and David, that

413
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,680
relationship.
That's the kind of relationship

414
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:23,200
we have is that, I mean, I would
charge the gates of hell with a

415
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,520
water pistol for I would do
anything he asked me to do and

416
00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:30,240
vice versa.
And we have and, and so anyhow,

417
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,000
he, we were doing this along.
And so then the then the

418
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,880
Affordable Care Act came out.
And this is 26.

419
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:37,400
Oh, let me throw in a couple
more things.

420
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:41,680
First off, like, well, when I
was when I was broker, my kids

421
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:42,920
love this.
I wrote a book.

422
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,560
This is their favorite story.
Nobody bought it.

423
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:49,920
Nobody, no one read it.
I threw away a hundred 200

424
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,440
copies of this book.
But I learned a very valuable

425
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:54,880
lesson.
If you can't sell it, it doesn't

426
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,440
matter.
So that was my walk away lesson.

427
00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:01,680
My kids love that story and so.
Well, at a big price.

428
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,080
Well, you're going to find out
how I used it here in a second.

429
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:09,680
And so, and then I tried
something else in Excel because

430
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,920
we, we dealt with a lot of very
complex health plans that

431
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,800
require extensive financial
modeling, self insured plans.

432
00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:20,000
So I tried in Excel to create
this automation tool to do the

433
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,600
financial reporting, hundreds
and hundreds and hundreds of

434
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,400
hours in Excel and could never
really get it to work.

435
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,480
But I learned Excel real well.
So then we then we go on

436
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:32,560
ourselves and I don't know how
I've ever going to use that.

437
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:34,280
All right.
So one of the things I've

438
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,280
learned, I used to say, well,
that was a failure.

439
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:40,400
Be careful.
Maybe not.

440
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:42,280
Because of the lessons you
learned from it.

441
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:44,720
Correct.
So Fast forward, the Affordable

442
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,800
Care Act comes out and and.
What year is this?

443
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:54,080
20 Well, I was looking at the
reporting functionality 2014,

444
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:59,080
2015 and we're dead broke.
Like if I don't get one more

445
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:02,000
payment from the sale of that
company, I don't pay rent.

446
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:06,120
There is no retirement account.
You went from millionaire to

447
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,040
can't even pay the bills.
Yes, yes.

448
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:13,720
That hit, that hit hard.
Well, yeah, and, and seeing the

449
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:20,880
the sand fall out of the
hourglass, tough, tough and and

450
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,640
so, but, you know, you just keep
on going and you got to have the

451
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:27,840
faith that you're going to.
I never, I never feared not

452
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:29,600
pulling it out eventually.
I just didn't know how much

453
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:29,880
more.
Pain.

454
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:31,800
What makes you get back up
whenever you're at that low

455
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:35,560
level?
I think, you know, the way that

456
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,840
I played football was just never
an option to not.

457
00:23:38,120 --> 00:23:39,920
So you think you learned those
lessons at a younger age?

458
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,040
I think so.
I think it's maybe some of the

459
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,800
way that I'm wired.
Yeah, because there's a whole

460
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,120
bunch of, there's a whole bunch
of other stuff that it's

461
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:50,480
probably for a different type of
podcast.

462
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,240
But there were there were lots
of other, other challenges as

463
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,160
well.
And so I'd read this, you know,

464
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:58,600
before a Care Act and this there
was this reporting

465
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:00,600
functionality.
I mean, it was a disaster.

466
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,320
Like I don't know who, I don't
know who wrote that part, but

467
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,880
it's like this is this is bad,
bad and it's not going away.

468
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:09,120
And so.
What is the reporting?

469
00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:10,280
Functionality.
Well, the reporting

470
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:15,240
functionality requires companies
that are large enough you have

471
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,560
to offer health insurance and
you have to do certain reporting

472
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:20,920
saying that you did it in an
affordable manner.

473
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:23,840
And So what they're trying to do
is to figure out who gets a

474
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:25,560
subsidy and who doesn't get a
subsidy.

475
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:30,840
And so I had looked at and I was
consulting some brokers and, and

476
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:33,600
in Trent we were trying, we were
figuring out.

477
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,600
So we'd read, we were like one
of the only people in our

478
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:37,920
industry that actually read it.
So we knew all about this

479
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,240
reporting functionality.
And so we see what we need to

480
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:41,680
do.
Let's build some software that

481
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,400
we can sell to brokers.
We never build software.

482
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:48,360
And so so we kind of designed
something up and got a quote,

483
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:52,840
$750,000.
I was like, ho, ho, Mama.

484
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,920
And I was like, I don't, I don't
have.

485
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,560
And so I prayed about it and I
just thought about a couple guys

486
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:01,320
to call.
And I call one guy and he's

487
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:03,000
like, yeah, man, I think that's
bad.

488
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:05,760
Trying to investors in it.
Well, I was just trying to get

489
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:10,640
their opinion like is that and I
called a second guy who who owns

490
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:14,040
an online enrollment system.
These are systems that you like

491
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,320
enroll in your benefits, you
sign up for everything, OK, and

492
00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:18,360
so.
You do through work.

493
00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:20,320
This is that's right, exactly
same thing.

494
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:24,400
And so I I asked him, he was
like, yeah.

495
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,600
And he didn't know what it was.
And he said, yeah, it sounds.

496
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,640
And so I was getting off the
phone with him after he was

497
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,240
like, that's a bad idea.
And I just fishing, I said what

498
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,680
are y'all doing for that whole,
you know, side note, what are

499
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,800
y'all doing for that whole
Affordable Care Act reporting

500
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:39,600
thing?
He said yes, funny ass.

501
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:40,720
He goes.
We built the software, we're

502
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:42,000
just going to give it away for
free.

503
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:44,840
What and?
I said free.

504
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:46,920
Why were they going to get away?
For free.

505
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:48,680
I don't know.
And I was like what the hell?

506
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:52,960
Like I'm trying to find a way I.
Just we're screwed.

507
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:54,480
Again.
And so I called Trent, I was

508
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,160
like, you go listen to this one.
And so we've been working all

509
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:58,240
this.
That's it.

510
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,680
It's not going to work.
We can't go, we can't go borrow

511
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,160
money to build something to he's
already giving it away.

512
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:09,960
And so, I mean, it was
depression for about two days

513
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:14,080
and then I was sitting around, I
think I was, I don't know, was I

514
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,200
drinking wine or bourbon?
I think I had a couple.

515
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,920
I get pretty creative at first,
first bourbon or maybe like I'm

516
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:21,760
just thinking.
And so I called him.

517
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:23,280
I said, hey, Tran, I got an
idea.

518
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,640
He said, what is it?
I said let's take his free

519
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:29,840
software and just do this for
people.

520
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:35,080
He said what?
I said, I want to take his

521
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:38,000
software and just do this crap
for people.

522
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,960
He laughed.
I said here, think about this

523
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:42,880
way.
First of all, I don't think

524
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:44,000
people are going to want to do
this.

525
00:26:44,360 --> 00:26:47,640
I just don't.
And but this is what I do know

526
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,240
from the book.
If we can't sell it, it doesn't

527
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,320
matter.
It does not matter how good what

528
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,840
we came up with is, if we can't
sell it, if we can't market it,

529
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:56,960
we can't do it.
You think you could sell it?

530
00:26:57,120 --> 00:26:59,720
Yes.
And, and I said, and if we can

531
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:04,280
sell it, it doesn't matter
because if we sell enough of it,

532
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,120
we'll have enough money when we
do anything we need to do.

533
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:08,320
And I said I'm not lying to
people.

534
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,920
I know how to do this in Excel.
I could do it, you know, by hand

535
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,760
and we said, you know if we
could make 50 grand a piece or

536
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,000
something that would be
unbelievable like that would

537
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,680
help us give some time to kind
of float some other things you.

538
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:22,000
Have a 9:00 to 5:00 during this
period.

539
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,440
No, we were just still, I
couldn't, I couldn't have a

540
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:26,240
nine.
I was doing right.

541
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,120
And and Trent was just at my
size, like let's figure it out

542
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:31,400
somehow.
We're going to figure it out.

543
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,040
And so I went online and I was
like, you know, it was ACA

544
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:40,840
reporting, ACA reporting service
thatsoundsgood.com.

545
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,720
And so Trenton then got a book
of like 100 and something SEO

546
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:46,760
things to do.
And I said, which ones you going

547
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:48,560
to do?
He was like, I think I could do

548
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,480
them all.
I was like, and so he was crazy

549
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,680
like me, right?
And so we, we work, we work as,

550
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,920
as start at 4:00 in the morning
because that's what it was

551
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,560
required.
And we'd end at 7:00 or 8:00 and

552
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,760
we do PM and we do that every
day.

553
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,400
And or, and when we weren't
doing that, we were there

554
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,440
mentally.
So six weeks later, that website

555
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:16,400
hit #1 on Google and the phone
started ringing and it didn't

556
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:22,400
stop we so we grew fast.
As we were hiring people, we

557
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,240
were like, let don't sit down.
So.

558
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,480
Let me pause for a second.
Are you using the free software

559
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:29,280
that was given to you or we're
using the Excel?

560
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:35,600
Not yet.
This was only like April of 2015

561
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:40,480
and the reporting wasn't even
due until early 2016, so we had

562
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,400
plenty of time.
So you were just getting hits

563
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:43,920
and you weren't even selling
anything yet?

564
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,920
Well, we people call us and we
would explain it to them.

565
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:48,400
We would say, you know, we're
going to do your reporting.

566
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:50,840
And then they would say, well,
how do we get started?

567
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,520
And we would say quote UN quote,
we still laugh about it.

568
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:55,480
We'd say step number one is the
most important.

569
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,920
That's when you mail us a check.
And they said what?

570
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,400
And we'd laugh.
And we'd say no, seriously,

571
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,200
you'd.
Ask for money. 100% of it

572
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:08,040
upfront, yes.
And what the truth of matter

573
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,640
was, is that because of volume
you better send us a check or we

574
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:13,560
might not have the capacity to
even get you done.

575
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,400
And there wasn't anybody else.
It was no one had thought about

576
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,520
doing it as a service.
So that company went from not

577
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:24,000
existing to bringing in a
million 8IN revenue in nine

578
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:29,880
months and we didn't have like
big overhead cost structures.

579
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,240
Money before you'd ever like
knew that you could complete the

580
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:34,440
service.
I knew that we could do it.

581
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,760
A. 100% Well I could do it.
I could do it in Excel.

582
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,120
Now was I thinking about some?
I was thinking about like an

583
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,440
accountant would do it.
I was not thinking about there

584
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,360
being hundreds and hundreds of
thousands of clients and having

585
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,680
to have SAS based saw.
I was not thinking about that

586
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,280
and actually the very first year
because I knew so much about

587
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:56,320
Excel, we hired this outside
consultant spent 100 grand.

588
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,800
He created this like workflow
workbook that we they loved it.

589
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:01,760
It was secure.
It was awesome.

590
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,320
They were like this is easy,
like just even when.

591
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:05,880
We went to SAS through how to do
it.

592
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:10,480
It was basically like like
software that's installed on

593
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,360
your desktop.
They opened it up an Excel

594
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,600
document with tons of macros
that that flow through just like

595
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,120
a SAS application would.
They sent it to us, it

596
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,680
preprocessed it, created all the
stuff that was necessary,

597
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,040
created the forms like.
It was awesome.

598
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,280
So you were selling essentially
software slash, I guess SAS

599
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,280
software as a service that you
were doing purely in Excel, Yes.

600
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,360
Whoa.
Yes, why?

601
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,880
Why did I know to do that?
Because I had wasted because I

602
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,480
had quote, UN quote, wasted all
that time doing that self

603
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,000
insured reporting that'll come
back up in a.

604
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:40,600
Minute, yeah, I do want to dive
into that.

605
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:44,160
Well then, do you remember what
happened in the fall of 2016?

606
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,200
So that would have been my
senior year of high school.

607
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:49,680
I was more focused all I didn't
care about the political

608
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,280
climate.
I didn't care about anything.

609
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,800
All I cared about was football.
At that time, right, That was

610
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,400
when Donald Trump got elected.
Yes, yes, that one.

611
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,840
And if he got elected, one of
the main things was that he was

612
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:01,400
going to get rid of the
Affordable Care Act.

613
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,800
Obamacare got you.
And so that would.

614
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:07,200
Have thrown away your business?
All of it and all these people

615
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,560
that we love and care about that
we now are employ and we created

616
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:12,680
this place.
How many?

617
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,720
Employees, did you have?
We weren't that big, maybe 10 or

618
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:16,800
12.
But they're all going to lose

619
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:17,880
their jobs.
Hi, everybody.

620
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:23,520
Yeah, so when my hangover wore
off, I Trent said I don't know

621
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:25,240
where Mark is, but I know he's
got a hangover.

622
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:30,760
And I came in and I said, y'all,
I got a guy got to disappear, do

623
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:34,240
the best job you can.
But I'm leaving the office, I'm

624
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:38,640
going home and I'm going to try
to reinvent us something because

625
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:42,920
we had some, it's going to take
time to get rid of it, but I was

626
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,200
like, I'm just, I have to go
reinvent something new.

627
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:50,120
And so that was the, you know,
the one company and they ran, we

628
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,480
had to take the money that we
were making there and try to

629
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,920
reinvest it.
And so that's when I hire

630
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,120
software team and then we built
self insured reporting a big

631
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:03,520
which since has become a very
robust claim analytics and

632
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,280
reporting platform.
Yeah, can.

633
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,200
You dive into what self insured
reporting is and who are the

634
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,240
clients that use it.
Yeah, it's employee benefit

635
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:13,680
brokers.
So like if, if if you go and

636
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,840
sell a company health insurance
and you say it's going to be

637
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,680
$100,000 a month.
And so at some point though, you

638
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:23,080
get large enough that you look
at it statistically and you go

639
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,800
law of large numbers says that
you could kind of predict your

640
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:27,680
claims.
Like why do I want to pay

641
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,160
insurance carry all this extra
money to predict something

642
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,600
that's that I can predict?
And so you end up breaking these

643
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:35,480
components out.
But here's the problem.

644
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:37,520
So previously I said, all right,
what's up?

645
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,400
It's $100,000 a month.
And so now I'm paying claims as

646
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:42,960
they come and they say, well,
how much is it you?

647
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:44,920
I don't know.
Well, you have to have a better

648
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,320
answer than that, you know, So
you have to have a statistical

649
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,640
and so it's very complicated
type thing, so.

650
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,360
It's data analytics, it's for
large companies, for the

651
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:54,640
clients.
That's exactly right.

652
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:59,200
Yep, and and so and.
Not necessarily large, but in

653
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,360
general that's right.
Large enough that they the law.

654
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,240
Law of large numbers.
That's right.

655
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,120
Yeah, exactly.
And you're buying different

656
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,800
types of insurance and
reinsurance that layering it

657
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,240
into the to you know, and so and
that's tough to report broker.

658
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:14,680
Essentially, yeah, using the
law, law of large numbers,

659
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:16,640
becoming a broker, finding the
best deals for different.

660
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,080
Companies, that's right.
And and So what was it?

661
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,880
It was a tool for the industry I
understand stood real well just

662
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,640
like the other one was.
And so it continued to grow.

663
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:27,000
And then the Affordable Care Act
didn't go anywhere.

664
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,160
Oh no, Oh no, it never went
away.

665
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,280
And so and then there was more
legislation.

666
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:34,880
So then we were like, oh, this
is great.

667
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,240
What you do when they pass these
ridiculous bills at the end of

668
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:40,680
the year, what you do is you
pull it up.

669
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:44,400
I pull up the PDF after they've
these omnibus things and I hit

670
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:49,080
control.
F Find reporting reporting

671
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,400
reporting reporting, reporting.
Huh.

672
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:53,800
That looks terrible.
Let's buy that website domain.

673
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:56,360
Wait, say that.
Again, let's buy that website

674
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:58,560
domain website, yes, right,
because it worked so good the

675
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:02,160
first time and so so we started
1/3 company that and so

676
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:07,400
ultimately we became this
compliance slash technology, you

677
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,760
know, organization and and grew
grew pretty, you know pretty

678
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,480
good.
I think we hit never had any

679
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,239
outside investment, never had
any debt.

680
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:19,120
Sweet hit about 10 million in
revenue.

681
00:34:19,199 --> 00:34:21,440
How are you able to work on all
three simultaneously?

682
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:23,639
Well, they kind of fed onto one
another.

683
00:34:23,639 --> 00:34:25,239
Yeah, that's the same similar
needs.

684
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:29,760
Yeah, they did.
And they, we sort of had similar

685
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,440
shareholders.
They were certainly different

686
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,120
businesses, but they just had
their own teams.

687
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:38,320
And yeah.
And so it, they grew pretty

688
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,000
well.
And then it was an opportunity

689
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,360
to, you know, because I'm not
trying to take the stuff to the

690
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,920
grave.
And so, and you know, this great

691
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,719
private equity firm, there's a
lot that are like, there's a lot

692
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:54,440
of them that'll give you money
and it's very hard to get money

693
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:56,320
candidly, but there's a lot of
them that want to give you

694
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:57,760
money.
And then there's some that

695
00:34:57,760 --> 00:34:59,840
actually know what it is that
they're doing in that industry.

696
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:01,760
Value in the product.
They.

697
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,800
Yeah, I was, I mean, I was
stunned how smart these guys,

698
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,720
that they're really smart about
my industry.

699
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,960
You're teaching me stuff.
Well, I know that, you know, and

700
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,240
so it's been, it's been awesome.
Yeah.

701
00:35:14,240 --> 00:35:16,120
Was it a difficult decision
going to sell?

702
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:20,880
I've heard of a lot of people,
they sell their company and then

703
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:22,080
they lose their sense of.
Purpose.

704
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,560
Yes, that is well, I'd already
been through that.

705
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,720
And so like when I'd sold the
company first time for the first

706
00:35:28,720 --> 00:35:31,960
six months, it was unbelievable.
And then I remember pushing my

707
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,840
daughter on Daniel Island, lived
in Charleston at the time and

708
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:36,720
that she was in a was like a jog
stroller.

709
00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:40,000
And I think I'd walked like 11
miles and I remember sort of

710
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,440
stopping going, you know, you
can only walk so, so much.

711
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,320
What am I doing?
Like where am I going?

712
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:46,480
I got a.
This is back when you were in

713
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:47,720
your. 30s that's right.
Yeah.

714
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,480
And The funny thing is is that
when we just did this last

715
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:56,400
transaction, Trent retired and
so at 37 and so.

716
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,360
But for six months.
And it drove him crazy.

717
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,440
And he's like, that's it, yeah,
I'm good.

718
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:03,000
Yeah, but.
He could have retired, stayed

719
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,080
retired.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

720
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:10,480
Yeah, and but you know, it's not
no, because that's not how he's

721
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,880
wired.
And so instead he's he's a

722
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,240
psychopath in all the best ways.
Would you say you are as well?

723
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:18,920
What?
What made you want to start

724
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,920
another company after all this
with AI Innovation Lab?

725
00:36:22,240 --> 00:36:27,040
Well, actually we're I'm still
with the company and so I'm, I'm

726
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:30,360
kind of more at the private
equity board level, but I but it

727
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:35,240
is entrepreneurial in that, you
know, I'm going in finding these

728
00:36:35,240 --> 00:36:38,280
different areas inside.
Right now we're mainly focused

729
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:41,840
on because my company's the
three companies were rolled up

730
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:43,480
with.
We've done four other

731
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:44,880
acquisitions like.
You bought other.

732
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,280
Companies and I'm on that board.
I'm on the board of the company.

733
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:49,280
So when you're building these
three companies, you're also

734
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:50,800
acquiring smaller companies
along the.

735
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,360
Way we never did we never did no
deprived equity firm exactly

736
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:58,880
yeah started pull us all
together in late 2023 and so

737
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,640
someone really needed to kind of
step out back that's not in the

738
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:07,120
normal day-to-day operations and
go all right we need to do this

739
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:10,600
right here and to be able to
focus and you know not have all

740
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,680
the internal it's like oh we got
to do this you know all this

741
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,560
that's that's me I mean I'm a
that's this kind of stuff that I

742
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:21,720
like doing yeah.
How did you learn how to use AI

743
00:37:21,720 --> 00:37:24,680
and get involved with AI coming
from the insurance background?

744
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:26,080
Yeah, and I'm, I mean, I'm not
an engineer.

745
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:27,200
I don't really think about
software.

746
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:29,760
I do know how you.
Figured out that Excel stuff was

747
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,680
pretty impressive.
That was and you know, in every

748
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,400
specification for every piece of
software that we ever built, I

749
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,320
wrote personally and the reason
I.

750
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,040
Figured out as you.
Go, I figured out as I went and

751
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:42,640
I was taught, I mean, I just
learned.

752
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,640
And the biggest thing was I
learned that software

753
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:50,080
developers, what I thought was
like, these guys are idiots.

754
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,400
They can't do.
But the reality is, is I did not

755
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:55,760
know how to communicate what it
is that I wanted.

756
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,800
And so the way that I tell like
you think that you could tell a

757
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,040
software developer like you
would a child, hey, get up out

758
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,800
of bed, it's break, you know,
it's time for school.

759
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:06,880
I'll see you down, you know,
brush your teeth and get down to

760
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:08,560
breakfast.
You can't tell a software

761
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:10,360
developer.
That going with this because me

762
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,920
coming from a software developer
background, we want to know

763
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:16,080
exactly what you want, correct?
If someone telling to say build

764
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,280
a web interface that does this
is this, it's like okay, but

765
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:19,840
where do you want this?
Box.

766
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,400
Yeah.
And so I described it as like,

767
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:26,440
if that were that same kid,
you'd have to go, good morning.

768
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:28,880
It's time to wake up.
Open your eyes, look at the

769
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,040
ceiling.
OK, now pivot from the waist and

770
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:34,480
pull your torso up.
Sit straight up.

771
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:38,440
Now roll your legs around as if
you're going to touch the floor.

772
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,160
Put your feet on the floor.
Put weight on your feet and

773
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:46,440
extend your legs and stand up
like and it's, it's every single

774
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,240
step because they don't know.
They don't.

775
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:50,800
They're not.
They're not, they don't know the

776
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,160
kind of, they know how to code,
they know how to do their thing.

777
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:56,560
They don't know the the ambition
that you have or the right, the

778
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:57,880
picture that you have in your
head.

779
00:38:57,880 --> 00:38:59,960
That's right.
So it is hard to convey that to

780
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,240
the software developer.
Yeah, yeah, I can speak from.

781
00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:03,040
Experience.
Yes, I know.

782
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:04,560
That's what I was about to say.
Yeah, yeah.

783
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:07,840
We just have a hard time
sometimes when when the

784
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:09,920
sometimes, especially when the
customer doesn't know what they

785
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:10,840
want.
That's right.

786
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:12,760
So sometimes they're we kind of
want this.

787
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:14,560
We kind of want this.
Hey, we was bringing a software

788
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:15,600
engineer.
They've done this plenty of

789
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:17,040
times.
They can teach us what we want.

790
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:18,600
That's right.
And so it is a little bit of

791
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:21,320
back and forth and sometimes a
lot of back and forth on what

792
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:22,120
until we.
Get it right?

793
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:24,000
Yeah, exactly.
So it can be like that.

794
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,000
Yeah, exactly.
And so that was a learning

795
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:28,800
process and I had to get to
where I would go.

796
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:31,040
All right, look, don't think I'm
not paying.

797
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:32,440
I'm paying you to follow
instructions.

798
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,080
Don't think I've already done
the thinking.

799
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:38,840
And so, you know, it's, it's
funny because they'd say you get

800
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,360
a set of specifications like
what about this is like, don't

801
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,760
think I I understand, I
understand, but I got to get you

802
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:46,840
this far before we accomplish
that.

803
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:48,440
Like where is this going to be
there?

804
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,040
So what is the goal with AI
Innovation Labs today?

805
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:57,280
It's both exciting and
terrifying.

806
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:04,080
I I think about that from social
impact and impact on people like

807
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,480
it's not.
It's, it's, it's awesome and

808
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:11,280
it's super exciting.
And the goal obviously is to to

809
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,000
add more capacity to our
business.

810
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:17,200
At the same time, it's a little
unnerving because you go I don't

811
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:20,880
really share with the long term
implications of this are right.

812
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:22,920
It's about AI in general.
Yeah.

813
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:24,880
And I'm not talking about, I
mean, there's always, there's

814
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:27,440
all of course the weird stuff of
light people having

815
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:29,720
relationships with AI, there's
that.

816
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,840
But I'm just talking about how
it's going to impact jobs.

817
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:35,720
I mean, because I look at, for
instance, like one line of

818
00:40:35,720 --> 00:40:40,640
business for us, it's growing so
fast and it's very hard to hire

819
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:44,600
the people that are necessary to
do this one particular function.

820
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,000
And that is not even worth
getting into.

821
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,720
Yes, it's a complicated kind of
a kind of a function that's, but

822
00:40:50,720 --> 00:40:53,200
it is driving a lot of revenue
and that's very industry

823
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:54,400
specific.
It wouldn't matter.

824
00:40:54,800 --> 00:41:01,520
And and so you know, we might
have, I don't know call it 80

825
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,200
employees working in that by the
end of the year.

826
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:11,520
But with the AI innovations that
I'm working on, we might need 20

827
00:41:12,720 --> 00:41:15,360
maybe.
Yeah, I definitely get that.

828
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:19,360
And so you go and, and it's hard
to hire the other 60 and they're

829
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:21,440
expensive and they're
temperamental.

830
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:25,800
And you know, they're not, it's,
it's, you know, at first some of

831
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,080
our staff internally, that's one
of the nice things about me

832
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:30,480
being separate.
They're like, oh, AI can't, the

833
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:34,040
AI can't do this.
I was like, OK, OK, so let's

834
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:36,960
just hypothetically like when
some, when you train someone to

835
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,080
do this, do they have experience
in this?

836
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:41,360
No, I mean, nobody has
experienced this.

837
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:41,800
OK.
All right.

838
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:43,840
Just was curious.
And so how long does it take

839
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,000
you?
Oh, about four months.

840
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:48,120
OK.
And So what you're saying is you

841
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:50,400
can take somebody off the street
who doesn't know anything about

842
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:52,040
this and teach them how to do it
in four months.

843
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:53,840
Yeah.
Yeah, I can do that.

844
00:41:54,720 --> 00:41:56,240
Yeah.
I can do that 100.

845
00:41:56,240 --> 00:41:58,520
Percent from my experience with
AI, it's not necessarily like

846
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:01,600
taking jobs completely, but it
is helping the people that

847
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:04,320
currently have the jobs, making
them way more efficient, way

848
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:06,600
more productive, which I guess
in turn means you need less

849
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:07,200
people.
That's right.

850
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:09,720
So yeah, there is a give and
take there.

851
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,080
It's a very valuable tool.
It is.

852
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:15,440
And you know, the the hard part
right now is figuring out how

853
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:17,720
you orchestrate it because
there's, there are these

854
00:42:17,720 --> 00:42:21,360
individual tools, but it's just,
it's clunky and it requires you

855
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:23,600
getting in there.
That's.

856
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:24,840
Exactly right.
Yeah, they're all.

857
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,520
Trying to use like, which one is
perfect for what I need?

858
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:28,880
That's right.
That's the hard part, yeah.

859
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,520
Yeah.
And like, if you're a real small

860
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:33,720
company, you might be able to
grab this one thing.

861
00:42:33,720 --> 00:42:36,280
But if you've, you have to, you
know, if you have, if you're

862
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:38,840
going to have more than one, you
have to, you have to start

863
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:40,760
thinking about infrastructure
and how am I going to maintain

864
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:42,160
this?
No different than any other

865
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:43,880
software, You'd have to maintain
it.

866
00:42:44,240 --> 00:42:47,720
And, but it's fascinating.
I mean, like Trent, Trent is

867
00:42:47,720 --> 00:42:52,080
not, he actually, he's undergrad
exercise science, but he, I was

868
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:56,280
looking at videos yesterday
where he has built AI agents for

869
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:58,560
us.
And you know, for things for

870
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:02,120
instance, like marketing, you
know, we, we believe that some

871
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:05,120
of the stuff that we're working
on that will completely

872
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:13,480
automate, well 9095% automate
all marketing, all of it from

873
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:17,240
the creation of the script to
the creation of the video, to

874
00:43:17,240 --> 00:43:21,240
the cut of the video for every
social media channels to posting

875
00:43:21,240 --> 00:43:27,360
it to Google Ads, to AB testing
to and on and on and on, all of

876
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:29,280
it.
That would be a very valuable

877
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:30,040
tool.
Yes.

878
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:34,080
Now you still need judgement to
look at it and you go, OK, well,

879
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:36,880
I like this or that.
I don't like this but.

880
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:39,320
That's about it.
And there's different target

881
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,320
audiences when you're marketing.
So you kind of have to detail

882
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,760
that AI or fine tune that AI per
SE for your target audience,

883
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:47,920
which can be more difficult.
And it's definitely a problem

884
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:50,440
worth solving when you think
about your your.

885
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:54,040
Daily life today.
Versus when you were grinding,

886
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:57,640
waking up at 4:00 AM, finishing
at 8:00, what was the day, what

887
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:00,360
was a typical day look like
then, and what does a typical

888
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:05,240
day look like now?
Typical day was really, really,

889
00:44:05,240 --> 00:44:10,520
really hard then it was really
hard and it was a lot of hours,

890
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:13,760
a lot of coffee.
Yeah.

891
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:18,280
And I just would, you know, just
go into a zone and knock it out,

892
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:21,320
you know, just you got to do
what you got to do in those.

893
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,160
I was, I would kind of break it
up for me like that was during

894
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:28,000
the everything was redlined.
Everything was redlined.

895
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:31,000
And you can't do your best work
when you're doing that.

896
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:33,280
You just can't.
But at some point sometimes in

897
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:36,600
life, you're just surviving.
But I do believe that if you get

898
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:40,280
to where you've got some basic
kind of needs, people go get in

899
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:42,960
debt and stuff like that.
So stupid, like you put too much

900
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:44,760
pressure on yourself.
Would you have gone in debt to

901
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:51,240
get that $750,000 software?
No, I don't.

902
00:44:51,240 --> 00:44:53,520
I wouldn't have been able to
borrow that much money.

903
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:58,160
No, no, I wouldn't have.
There's there's always almost

904
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:02,880
always a more novel, simple
solution, but you got to dig and

905
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:06,320
it requires getting your hands
dirty and it requires doing

906
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:07,760
stuff that you know, and
failing.

907
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:09,400
You got to be get good at
failing.

908
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,560
You know, when, when I was
before I'd sold the first

909
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:19,360
company that was, you know, that
was the 5055 hour, I would say,

910
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,600
you know, kind of weeks.
And, you know, it looked like

911
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,560
getting up and working out in
the mornings and, you know,

912
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:30,920
driving my kids to school, you
know, most days, you know, just

913
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:33,960
trying to try to be present for
them and trying to it's, you

914
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:36,120
know, juggling lots of things.
Did you have any kind of work

915
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:38,240
life balance back then when you
had your kids and you were?

916
00:45:38,240 --> 00:45:40,280
Working, See, I hate work.
I hate the whole idea of work.

917
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:43,680
To me, it's life.
It's just like it's just life.

918
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:46,480
Don't do something that you hate
and then you won't.

919
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:49,920
It won't.
There's no life or like so like

920
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:52,880
Saturdays I work because I went
to.

921
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:55,560
Work you enjoy it.
I that's what I want to do, yes,

922
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:57,800
still and have you.
Ever had a job in LA?

923
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:00,120
Have what?
Ever had a job you didn't like?

924
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:07,720
No, I mean, there's certainly.
Certainly days you're like, oh,

925
00:46:07,720 --> 00:46:10,800
I could, I could sleep in today.
I wish I could not go to the

926
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:12,160
office today, but.
Almost.

927
00:46:12,240 --> 00:46:14,760
Almost never.
Yeah, Really.

928
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:16,840
Yeah.
No, no, I haven't had that.

929
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:18,600
You're always excited to get to
the get to work.

930
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:22,680
To just go, to just get moving
and I just haven't.

931
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:23,920
I mean, I was.
That's just.

932
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:25,920
How you're wired.
I had perfect attendance all

933
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:26,800
through high school.
Really.

934
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:29,480
Yeah.
So I mean, it's just like.

935
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:30,920
You weren't skipping in your
senior year?

936
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:33,000
I checked.
I did not skip in my senior.

937
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:37,000
Year I checked out early on
senior skip day though yes, it

938
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:39,840
was awesome.
I think I got that from my mom

939
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:41,840
and dad.
They were just like, I mean, you

940
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:43,760
just got to show up.
You got to work and I was I was

941
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,240
4.
Sports in high school and so

942
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:48,760
yeah.
And so you you've got to

943
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:50,720
practice, which means you got to
be at school.

944
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:53,680
Did you have any siblings?
I did, older brother.

945
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:57,240
Or is he driven the same way?
No, absolutely not.

946
00:46:57,240 --> 00:46:59,000
That's just your God-given
wiring.

947
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,680
Yeah, just weird.
Yeah.

948
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:03,720
You know, OK, cool.
For real.

949
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:07,040
Yeah, that's interesting.
And now it's, it's a lot

950
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:12,600
different, you know, I'm not.
I mean, there are times I just

951
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:15,040
don't sleep well, you know, your
kids and stuff.

952
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:15,640
How?
Many hours.

953
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:19,880
Did you sleep?
I try to sleep at least 88 to 9.

954
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:24,040
I'd say I sleep over 8 on
average, yeah, because I didn't

955
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:25,560
do that for a very long time.
So you're.

956
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:26,800
Catching up?
Yeah, exactly.

957
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:32,520
And but on a regular day, I
mean, I'll get up at 6:00 at

958
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:36,480
least once or twice, you know,
in the week I'll be up at 4:00

959
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:40,920
and, you know, do my normal
routine stuff.

960
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:44,960
Very same thing.
Pressure.

961
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:46,080
Routine.
Oh boy.

962
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:52,520
So I'll get up and, you know,
get some coffee, you know, I'll

963
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:54,840
read, you know, I'm Christian,
so I'll read the Bible.

964
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:58,680
I'll pray.
And so I'll do that and then

965
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:00,080
I'll work out three times a
week.

966
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:04,360
And I do that pretty regimented
or I'll, when I'm not doing that

967
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:07,480
cold plunge and, you know, Wim
Hof.

968
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:10,560
Yes, yes.
The where is he from Netherlands

969
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:13,240
or something?
Yeah, well, I was with him in

970
00:48:13,240 --> 00:48:14,240
March.
I met him.

971
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:17,280
What was there?
Yeah, I was in Poland hiking.

972
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:22,400
Me and some buddies, we went.
We hiked Mount Sneiska with this

973
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:26,400
expedition group.
Nothing but shorts and boots.

974
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:27,800
Did you know he was going to be
there?

975
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:29,320
Oh.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

976
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:30,720
That's.
Great, he's wearing shorts and

977
00:48:30,720 --> 00:48:32,600
boots the whole time.
Oh yeah, absolutely.

978
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:34,240
Yeah.
It was 20s.

979
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:35,800
Yeah.
I'll show you the pictures.

980
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:38,720
It was awesome.
But it's like a cold exposure

981
00:48:38,720 --> 00:48:43,040
kind of thing.
And so I do that and so you do

982
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:45,960
that.
And then I've got my basic work

983
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:49,040
and stuff that, you know, I'm
going to do every day, you know,

984
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:52,720
basic discipline related stuff,
you know, work related and

985
00:48:52,720 --> 00:48:54,680
study.
And then like right now it's

986
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:58,640
spring practice, so and it's off
and it's, you know, it's a lot

987
00:48:58,720 --> 00:49:02,880
during football season.
A lot and it's unbelievable how

988
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:04,880
much football coaches sit around
and BS.

989
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:07,840
It's unbelievable.
I believe you.

990
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:14,520
I was like, what are we doing?
I definitely get that from my

991
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:17,960
fair share of experiences.
We obviously have a very

992
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:21,520
fascinating story with tons of
highs but also tons of lows in.

993
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:25,880
The way.
When you recap on your journey

994
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:28,920
thus far, what's one thing
you're particularly just

995
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:31,360
extremely proud of?
How you handled the situation

996
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:37,000
particularly?
That's a good question.

997
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:44,640
I think when things were really,
really, really bad, I never went

998
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:47,320
into despair.
Never did.

999
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:53,800
Just didn't and it was hard.
I mean, it was hard.

1000
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:56,560
It's the, you know, those times
where you go and you, you walk

1001
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:58,920
and you cry and then you go back
at it.

1002
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:03,560
But I never and I never was
hopeless.

1003
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:08,240
And so I don't, you know, maybe
that's the way that I was wired.

1004
00:50:08,240 --> 00:50:11,120
Maybe that's faith.
I don't know what that is, but

1005
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:13,880
it was pretty.
It's pretty beautiful, you know,

1006
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:19,240
as I think I think back at it
and like, starting off was tough

1007
00:50:19,240 --> 00:50:22,440
too.
I mean, I graduated from

1008
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:26,440
college, then my dad took a nap
on my couch and died.

1009
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:30,040
He's 22 years old in Spartanburg
and I started.

1010
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:32,160
At your house or?
Apartment at my apartment, I

1011
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:36,240
started work like 2 weeks later.
That was hard, you know?

1012
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:41,800
And so yeah, I mean there's been
lots of lots of tragedy stuff

1013
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:47,280
and all kinds of the kids all
kinds of highs and lows and

1014
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:53,120
really difficult situations.
And, but it's, it's makes you

1015
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:56,160
who you are, right?
And so I don't regret any of it

1016
00:50:56,160 --> 00:51:00,560
because I, I really, I like how
it's turned out, you know, but I

1017
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:02,880
would say those things.
That's pretty impactful right

1018
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:04,400
there.
I want to be respectful of your

1019
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:06,160
time.
We'll end on this note.

1020
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:09,400
If you were speaking to a young
professional today, maybe

1021
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:12,480
teenage, maybe one of your
players that you coach and he

1022
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:15,320
wants to follow your shoes,
what's the best piece that you

1023
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:17,720
kind of touched on this earlier?
The number one thing he needs to

1024
00:51:17,720 --> 00:51:20,240
focus on to get to the end of
that journey through the highs

1025
00:51:20,240 --> 00:51:22,160
and the lows.
Yeah, I would say invest an hour

1026
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:24,320
a day in yourself.
Nice, I like it.

1027
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:28,040
Yeah, think you do that.
You pay yourself first before

1028
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:31,120
anybody.
And maybe if you're religious,

1029
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:35,000
maybe you do that first.
But then you do an hour a day

1030
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:37,840
every day and then watch and see
what happens.

1031
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:39,480
That is great advice right
there.

1032
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:41,080
Well, Mark, thank you so much
for joining me.

1033
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:43,320
That would be really fun.
Enjoy it.

1034
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:46,040
Yeah, thanks for having me.