Chace Campbell: Business Law and Estate Planning | EP 32

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Thank you all for tuning into
the Carolina Business Leaders

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Podcast where we share stories
of local impact makers who carve

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their path through perseverance,
passion, and leading the

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Carolina way.
Today's guest is Chase Campbell.

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He's the managing attorney at
Chase Law Limited Company, a

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practice devoted to helping
families in business, probates

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and family law.
Chase, thank you so much for

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coming.
Thank you, Chase.

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Of.
Course you're wearing in the

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studio.
We're excited to talk to you.

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Learn about all about your
stories.

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I know that you are an avid
coffee connoisseur though, as I

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myself am.
Do you have like a favorite

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coffee shop around here?
Your favorite brand you

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recommend?
Oh, I got to tell you I I grew

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up in Seattle, so.
So or no, Gil did not grow up

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inside, but Gil was from
Seattle.

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Gil Garrison.
We talked.

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About earlier I have had a few
talks about that but I I grew up

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with Starbucks was not a
household name.

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I used to drink coffee at Pikes
Place Market.

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Yes, OK.
I think Roswell's like named

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after that.
Oh yeah.

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It's it's pretty cool.
Pikes Place Market is right

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there, and in fact, the market
is kind of a Seattle landmark.

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And right across the street is
the original Starbucks coffee

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house.
The original The original is.

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Still in operation.
Still in operation.

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Yeah, that's pretty cool.
And it looks like we just, well

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the last time I was in it, which
was a few years ago, it looked

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like you stepped back in time to
what shipping look like back in

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say 1920s and so.
That's cool.

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If we ever go to Seattle, we
gotta check that out.

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I know I've never been to
Seattle, but I'm also not a

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coffee drinker, so I'm married.
I know, I'm sorry, it's not a

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health thing.
It's the taste.

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I don't know what it is.
I can't have it.

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But I'm married, an avid coffee
drinker, so I get to go to all

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the coffee shops and test out
everyone's hot chocolate.

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So there's a move there.
All right, so you and I will

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have a conversation.
I can't go and decide who had

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the best coffee.
I was like, I was like a

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stripped curate guy.
And so my company got one of

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those nice coffee machines and
got the Bridge City beans.

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And if you want someone to want
to come to work, that's how you

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do it.
I will tell you I had a

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paralegal who left and went
back, choose from Canada, and I

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said, all right, what did you
learn while working here?

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And she said, actually I learned
above anything else the value of

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a good cup of coffee.
I was not expecting contracts.

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I don't understand how corn
system works.

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For her, it was coffee.
If you're running a small to mid

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size business, you know there's
simply not enough hours in a day

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to take care of all your
business needs.

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From managing health insurance
to pay your role, procurement,

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advertising, you're going to
need some help to get that

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initial momentum going.
That's why I would partner with

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Questco.
They take care of all the behind

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the scenes administrative and HR
work, letting you focus on what

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truly matters, which is running
your business.

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SQUESTCO Questco.
Visit questco.net or call your

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local QUESTCO representative,
Thomas Owens at 864-477-0843 to

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get started today.
Interesting.

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Wow.
So is there a local coffee shop

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that you love?
What's your favorite?

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I love chestnut.
Right.

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Here in the neighborhood, we
love it too.

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And they're hot chocolates.
Good, FYI.

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Yes.
But that's a good little spot,

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yeah.
A client introduced me to it and

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like, where did this come from?
Yeah.

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So that's kind of our down.
The That's great.

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But o'rear back into your
company and what you do, can you

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give the listeners just a
summary of Chase Law and kind of

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your role with with the company?
OK.

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So managing attorney is kind of
the CEO of if you think of a law

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firm as a business and the type
of law that we practice, from

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the outside it looks like it's
three different practice areas,

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estate planning, business and
probate.

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But internally and the
philosophy that drives us is

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that's not three different
practice areas, that's one

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continuous interlinked practice.
And so a lot of our estate plans

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are business owners.
In fact, the majority of our

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estate planning is business
owners because business owners

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have a very unique challenges on
problems that they're trying to

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solve.
And so like, how do I keep my

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business going if I die?
Essentially, if you don't think

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about really or won't care what
to think about but.

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You have to.
And a lot of times it's, you

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know, they've developed a
relationship with their clients

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that they want to make sure that
their clients are continued to

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take care of or their employees
are almost like family to them.

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And I had one who came in and
said, listen, it isn't so much

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what happens to my family.
I've got 15 families that all

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rely upon this business from
their livelihoods, their for

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their families livelihoods.
How do we keep them from

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suddenly all being out of a job?
And so that's a.

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Proactive leader coming to do
with that, coming to do with

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that challenge.
But then also simultaneously

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they're going, OK, who's going
to take care of my kids, you

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know, so.
Business leaders are always

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juggling 10 different things at
once.

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So the the, the joke that we
have is we do a state plan for

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business owners and other
complicated.

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Individuals.
It's a good tagline I.

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Don't want to fall into the
other category.

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So yeah, I I guess then, as the
managing attorney, what does a

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typical day look like in your
world?

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My day is really split.
My personal day is split between

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practicing law and of course,
running a business.

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So we basically have to carve my
day into half and say, all

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right, here's Chase as CEO,
here's Chase as an attorney.

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And the because the line shift
is so different between all

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right, I'm trying to solve my
problems or my firms problems or

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my employees problems too.
I try to solve my clients

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problems, very different hats,
very different mindsets

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compartmentalize.
It's, it's just all right.

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The thinking, the problem
solving is not different, but

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the mindset that you have to
have in order to do that is very

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different when it's, when it's
you, you've got to think very

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differently than when you're
saying this is someone else's

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issue.
Let me help them with what

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they're doing.
So that's so basically my day

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gets split horizontally between
the mornings are spent more as

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CEO and the afternoons are spent
more as practicing attorney.

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When did you establish Chase
Law?

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We started November 1st, 2002.
I left the firm and and they did

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me, you know, you know, here's a
key to the back door.

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You're always welcome to come
here and use our library.

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You know, what else can we do to
help you?

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And I had a friend, an attorney
friend who said, tell you what,

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just come work out of my
conference room.

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I'm not using it.
It's kind of an extra conference

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room, just set up shop and come
work here.

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And so I alternated between
using his conference room and

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using my dining room table and
then.

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So he was letting me set up shop
for your company?

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And.
His location, there's a, there's

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a real camaraderie among
attorneys here that we all kind

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of, you know, hey, we've been
there.

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We've done that here.
Let me give you a helping hand.

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So in fact, one attorney called
me and he said, listen, I

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understand you're just using a
coffee shirt right now.

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And I said, yeah, when I bought
it, I'm at home.

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And he said, I got it's just a
room in my office, you're

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welcome to come and just set up
a folding table or a desk, I

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don't care which, and just use
it.

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And I said I really don't have
the money to pay for it.

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And he goes, no, no, you don't
understand.

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It's free, he said.
Someone gave me a helping hand

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when I started out.
I'm giving you a helping hand.

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To give someone else,
Absolutely.

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So, and I think I was there for
about 3 months and I finally

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walked into his office and I
said I feel really bad about it.

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You know, you're you're you're
empty office.

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Can I pay you for it?
And he goes, OK, what can you

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pay me?
I said, I'm really not sure.

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He goes, how about 50 dollars,
$50.00?

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I said a month.
He goes, yeah, I said done.

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And then when I finally got kind
of my feet underneath me and we

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renegotiated that so.
That's fun.

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Your industry, especially here
in Greenville, is always helping

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each other out like that.
It is.

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It is extremely collegial.
Was it like that in law school?

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Law school, yes, but then I
started out while I was in law

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school in in the Midlands, so
while I was clerking and that's

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a very different mindset.
It's more combative between the

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attorneys in in there and then
you get down into Charleston and

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that's.
That location in general.

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Just just if you look at South
Carolina, you know, Charleston

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is very, very combative.
The Midlands semi combat.

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Greenville is almost like
collaborative.

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You know, that's nice where, you
know, we may have to go to court

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and we may absolutely beat up on
each other, but you know, don't

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heart feeling.
It's work, right?

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And they leave working your
friends again, which we picked

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up on that a little bit.
We've had a couple attorneys on

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the podcast and we can tell
there's collaboration.

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You work together and I found it
interesting that even when you

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leave a firm, you can take cases
with you, whereas our industry,

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financial services, you sign non
compete.

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So it's very strict.
So I think it's neat that

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attorneys want each other to
succeed.

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That's all.
Yeah, absolutely.

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You know, because at the end of
the day, we're all trying to

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just solve problems for people
and so.

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That's great.
So your practice has changed a

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ton, I'm sure from day one of
borrowing desks to where it is

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now.
So give us the evolution of

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Chase OK to.
Understand where we are now,

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you're going to have to
understand my life before Chase

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Law began, which is I started
out in a boutique law firm in

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Charlotte and I learned a lot
about how law practices should

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run like a business.
And the managing attorney kind

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of tucked me under his wing and,
and said, you know, here, let me

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kind of show you behind the
scenes what you need to know

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about what it is like to
actually run a law firm.

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How old were you at this?
Point I was fresh out of law

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school.
I mean, this is my fresh job.

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That's the best first job.
Yeah, whenever.

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You have someone that like at
that level just showing you the

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ropes of how this is.
Taking you under their wing,

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that's huge.
And so he'd take me to lunch and

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just talk and you know, OK, what
have you learned?

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What are what are you observing?
OK, we just had a personnel

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issue where we had to let
someone go.

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What was it like from your
perspective?

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So I got I did not realize how
much I was getting kind of set

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up for this back then.
I just I was just working a job

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and then I moved to Greenville
and I ended up being a temporary

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in house counsel for local
company who was going through a

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lawsuit.
And what they did is they said,

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all right, here is your staff
from our staff.

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They report to you.
They are your group, you are

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their group leader.
If they treated me like I was an

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employee, even though I wasn't
technically an employee and this

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was my team and they told me you
have the high power to hire and

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fire your team.
And if you have an issue, do you

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have to fire them?
And what was interesting is

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because this was kind of a short
lives project, because the

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litigation was going to come to
an end.

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I got a lot of people who were
kind of the when I was done with

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them, they weren't going to be
going back to the company that

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they had no prospects.
How old were you at this point?

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2627 years old.
So at that age, you already have

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00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,440
the responsibility of
potentially hiring, firing

227
00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:01,960
people, Yes.
Moving pieces around, Yeah.

228
00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,760
What I found interesting is I
learned a lot about managing

229
00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:08,480
people at that point and.
Which that's probably not

230
00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:09,880
typical for an attorney at that
age.

231
00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:11,680
No, it isn't.
It really isn't.

232
00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:18,120
And some of those I had to let
go for cause.

233
00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:25,000
Some of those they removed
themselves and some of those I

234
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,520
found that they had skill sets
that the company really needed

235
00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:34,560
and they ended up going back
into the company when I was at

236
00:13:34,560 --> 00:13:39,480
what So that I learned an
important lesson with that,

237
00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:45,920
which is I had one young lady
who she just couldn't do her

238
00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:49,280
job.
And I I called her into the

239
00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:52,960
doctor and I said, tell me about
yourself.

240
00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:54,880
You know, I tried to figure out
why.

241
00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:59,240
And she said, well, what do you
want to know?

242
00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:01,160
And I said, well, what do you do
for fun?

243
00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:03,120
She goes like, don't make
friends.

244
00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:08,840
I said like make Frank
computers.

245
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,680
Yes.
And I said, that's a hobby.

246
00:14:13,680 --> 00:14:18,320
And she goes, yeah, I I've got a
2 room apartment and I live in

247
00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:24,000
my bedroom's in one room and the
other room is by lab for people.

248
00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,200
Companies hire me to build them
a mainframe.

249
00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:30,680
This is late 90s.
And.

250
00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:36,640
And I said I have a question
then what are you doing on my

251
00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,920
team?
And she goes, well, to be

252
00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:44,440
honest, I'm really bored.
And I said, I think so because I

253
00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:49,800
was having her do what I thought
was her skill level.

254
00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,560
And I realized I just completely
misread her skills.

255
00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:57,240
And I said, OK, the reason
you're not the reason we're

256
00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,160
talking to each other is because
you're not doing your job.

257
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:04,760
But I realized I'm, I'm asking
you to do something that is just

258
00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:07,640
totally outside what you're
naturally bent towards.

259
00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:13,920
So let's try this.
And I, I had a need and her

260
00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:16,920
mindset skills matched that
need.

261
00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:21,000
So I shifted her into that.
And I said, but I still need you

262
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,760
to do this because it's
necessary.

263
00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:28,440
And I didn't do that until we
find someone else to do it.

264
00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:30,920
But here, let me give you
something else to do.

265
00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,000
And she just blossomed and
thrived.

266
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:37,200
And ultimately I went back to
the IT, the head of IT for the

267
00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:40,440
company and said I think that
you really need to look at

268
00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:43,360
hiring her and they ended up
interviewing her and hiring her.

269
00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,080
That's great, losing.
Her as a result.

270
00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:48,920
But she.
Yeah, You could have taken the

271
00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,320
easy route, which is just let
her go or get rid of her and

272
00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,960
like figure out someone else
that can do that job that you

273
00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:56,800
need and not put that much
thought or effort into it.

274
00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,720
But I've heard good leaders,
they want the best for their

275
00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:01,760
team as well.
They know that in the long run,

276
00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:04,000
that's going to pay dividends.
And especially because the

277
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,960
company ended up keeping her,
they didn't have to like spend

278
00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,840
money on retraining somebody or
severance package or anything.

279
00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:14,120
So that's, yeah, obviously a
very good sign of leadership

280
00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:16,840
right there, in my opinion.
And this was back, if you think

281
00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:22,040
about it, end of 99, beginning
of 2000, that era is when we

282
00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:24,440
were starting to shift away from
a lot of mainframes.

283
00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:28,160
But she was the one person who
actually understood mainframes.

284
00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:30,880
I mean, the company needed
someone who that's.

285
00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:33,840
So funny, so it.
Was weird because they didn't

286
00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,240
realize that they had someone
who literally did this as a

287
00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:42,400
hobby in house and they're like
where did you come from?

288
00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:45,640
That's awesome.
That that cubicle over there.

289
00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:47,480
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's cool.

290
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:51,560
So, well, good.
So how did you decide you wanted

291
00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:54,360
to work with business owners?
What led to that niche?

292
00:16:56,360 --> 00:17:04,480
I grew up with a serial
entrepreneur for a dad and he he

293
00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:09,760
would do fun things like wake me
up in the morning and go, hey,

294
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:11,240
you want to play hooky from
school today?

295
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,720
What are you talking about?
I'm thinking about going and

296
00:17:16,839 --> 00:17:18,319
buying a company.
You want to go with me?

297
00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:19,560
Buying a company.
Yeah.

298
00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:26,599
So we would go and we talked
about it all the way there and

299
00:17:27,079 --> 00:17:30,640
then I just kind of sit there in
the corner and watch him and.

300
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,520
It's a cool experience.
It's a great exposure at a young

301
00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:35,160
age.
And there were times where he

302
00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:38,600
would go, no, I'm not going to
buy it and talk about it all the

303
00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:42,040
way home.
Like what is it that he saw that

304
00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:44,840
he did not?
And he would ask me, OK, what

305
00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:49,120
did you see?
And and a lot of questions, you

306
00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:53,160
know like, OK, what kind of
return on investment do you

307
00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:58,920
think it would have given us if
and so I guess I got an

308
00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,080
education that most people don't
get.

309
00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:03,840
You're always skipping school
and learning more.

310
00:18:05,360 --> 00:18:11,880
My mother, who was a school
teacher didn't so and she also

311
00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:18,040
had a rule for every day that I
did skip, I truly got that day

312
00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:23,600
made-up by one-on-one by her.
Why do you think you went the?

313
00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:25,120
Law route instead of the
business route.

314
00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:27,280
Not originally, because you're
kind of meshing the 2 now.

315
00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:32,160
Well, interestingly, I have
always had an interest in the

316
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:39,360
law, like literally from age 5.
And my parents kept saying, Oh

317
00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:44,320
yeah, you know, Chase is just he
got this in his mind.

318
00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:48,160
Maybe, you know, that's just it
will kind of work his way out.

319
00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:52,320
Or we don't want them to be wed
to this idea just because, you

320
00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:55,040
know, I want to be a
firefighter, you know, So you

321
00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:58,440
know, but at a young.
Age, like if someone asks like,

322
00:18:58,440 --> 00:18:59,520
what do you want to be when you
grew up?

323
00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:00,360
You say I want to be an
attorney.

324
00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:02,520
Wow, that's pretty.
Cool.

325
00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:06,200
So they, they, they kind of put
things in front of me to go,

326
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:07,880
hey, why don't you think about
this?

327
00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:10,040
Why don't you think about this?
You know, you're really good at

328
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:13,040
this.
They wanted me to keep my mind

329
00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:16,240
at least as open as possible.
My grandmother, on the other

330
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,520
hand, kept going.
You would make a really good

331
00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:21,560
attraction.
And so she would.

332
00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:29,120
She exposed me to Perry Mason
and we had a tradition of

333
00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:32,480
Wednesday night's Perry Mason
and.

334
00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,240
What is Perry Mason?
Perry Mason was a television

335
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:40,680
show about a lawyer.
Brenda Burke played that and to

336
00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:44,520
this day I associate my
grandmother with Reuben

337
00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:46,440
sandwiches.
Wednesday nights.

338
00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:48,360
Harry Mason.
Talking about it.

339
00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:55,440
So that's cool.
So my father one day said, I

340
00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:56,840
don't think it's what you think
it is.

341
00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:02,640
So go hang out with my attorney.
Just follow on for a day.

342
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:06,480
It's not as sexy as you think it
is.

343
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:11,960
And I came home and I said.
Oh, I had so much fun.

344
00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:17,600
I love it.
And his attorney was Lyle.

345
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,720
And Lyle ended up becoming my
mentor.

346
00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:25,880
And then years later, I got a
package in the mail from Lyle,

347
00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:30,320
and there was a handwritten note
on the top of it.

348
00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:32,920
And he said, dear Chase, as you
know, I'm retiring from the

349
00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:37,040
practice of law.
As you know, I've been your

350
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:41,200
parents attorney for years.
So I figured fitting for you to

351
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:45,040
take over and here are my files
from your parents.

352
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:50,200
That's.
Awesome.

353
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,160
If I can't believe that I was
such a young age and you

354
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,560
wouldn't be an attorney.
You had fun on the job, but

355
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:57,840
it's.
The other thing that my dad did

356
00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:03,200
not realize was his office was
right across the alley from the

357
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:07,640
courthouse.
And I used to go to his office

358
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:09,920
and drop my book bag.
And then I'd slip out the back

359
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,840
door and in the back door at the
courthouse, and I'd go and sit

360
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,800
and watch trials.
And one day the church goes,

361
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:22,240
young man, come here.
I can walk up to the bench.

362
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:25,920
There he goes, what are you
doing here?

363
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:32,400
And I was like, oh, and I said I
thought it was an open

364
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,200
courtroom.
And he goes, well it is, but why

365
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:40,000
are you here?
And I said I just wanted to

366
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:41,480
watch what?
Happened, he goes all.

367
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:46,320
Right, bailiff, bring a chair up
here.

368
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:49,040
And you parked me right next to
a hippo on the dance and.

369
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:52,440
That's cool.
And so, and he would do like,

370
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:57,080
please.
And so, you know, he'd go

371
00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,920
through the whole plea process
and then he'd go, what do you

372
00:21:59,920 --> 00:22:02,040
think, Chase?
And we'd talk about it and he'd

373
00:22:02,120 --> 00:22:04,080
go, OK, I'll talk to you about
that first.

374
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:09,200
Did you pronounce whatever was
the sentence and and?

375
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:11,800
What town is this in?
Everett, WA.

376
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:13,520
Okay, you're in Seattle.
That's right.

377
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:15,520
Wow, that's such a cool.
Experience.

378
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:19,080
Yeah.
So I got a chance to see

379
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:23,240
courtroom work from his
perspective and.

380
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,720
Which no other kids are getting
that and you're, I guess middle

381
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,440
school, high school.
Young high school at this age.

382
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,280
That's perfect age.
That's such a good exposure.

383
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,080
Yeah, that's amazing.
What took you from Washington to

384
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:34,960
South Carolina?
The.

385
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:37,120
University of South Carolina.
OK.

386
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,600
Very tired, but that's cool.
We are talking about tigers, but

387
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,080
hey.
I support the I support the law

388
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:43,760
program because comes to doesn't
have a law program.

389
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:45,080
We have a far better law school
than.

390
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,920
Yeah, yeah.
I'm 100% all on board for

391
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,560
Carolina law so.
I didn't have one client who

392
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:56,720
said I want in my seat plan that
if any of my children attend the

393
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,560
University of South Carolina
that they are disinherited.

394
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,560
And I said.
You were serious.

395
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:05,480
About this, You've been very
serious about this.

396
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,320
And I said you do understand
that your attorney graduated

397
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:12,880
from there because.
Yeah, but if they attend law

398
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:14,880
school there, then they're not
disinherited.

399
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,480
Correction.
Law school's OK because someone

400
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:20,000
doesn't have.
Enough.

401
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:21,120
Yeah, exactly.
So cool.

402
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,160
I guess we could.
Let's jump into some of the exit

403
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:25,960
planning for business.
Sure, sure.

404
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,960
So Chase and I thankfully have
gotten to meet lots and lots of

405
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,080
times on exit planning along
with my father.

406
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:33,440
As y'all know I'm in a family
business.

407
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,400
But with that being said, exit
planning is a hot topic right

408
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,200
now for business owners.
So why do you think that is and

409
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:40,880
what's the importance of exit
planning?

410
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:45,520
I think that it's always been a
hot topic.

411
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,680
We just, no one was ever
talking.

412
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:54,360
So I mean, anyone who is an
entrepreneur or business owner,

413
00:23:55,000 --> 00:24:00,200
and those are not synonymous
terms in my world, they do stop

414
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,240
and think, OK, what is the long
term game plan?

415
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,760
But they didn't have anyone to
talk to.

416
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,880
I mean, who do you talk to?
If you talk to your competitor,

417
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:12,720
they're, you know, it's like
throwing blood in the water.

418
00:24:13,120 --> 00:24:15,560
If you talk to someone who's not
a business owner, they kind of

419
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:16,800
look at you like you have three
eyes.

420
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:19,560
You know it's.
Not a huge community you would

421
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:20,240
imagine.
It isn't.

422
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,200
And when you stop and think
about it that you know

423
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,720
entrepreneurs and business
owners, you as lumped together

424
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:29,160
are probably 10% of the entire
population of the world and you

425
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:33,680
realize it is a very small
lonely place in that world.

426
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:40,840
And so I think that as people
have become aware that there are

427
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:42,960
other people who are struggling
with it, they're starting to

428
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:48,200
stop and thinking.
But that is kind of added to or

429
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:54,480
augmented by the fact that we
are watching the baby boomer and

430
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,240
the amount of wealth that is
about to change hands over the

431
00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,360
next 10 years.
It's just phenomenal.

432
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:03,200
And I think that people are
starting to say, wait a minute,

433
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,720
I no longer am looking at this
as this is I work for myself.

434
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,560
And when I'm done, I'm just
going to close up shop.

435
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,600
I think they're starting to
think longer term of all right,

436
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:20,600
how can I use this as a platform
to take care of my family?

437
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:30,360
How do I capture some of the
captive wealth that's been built

438
00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:35,600
up, but I've never really
thought about and just frankly

439
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,880
what's I think there were people
are a little more mindful of.

440
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,560
I want my clients to be taken
care of or I want my customers

441
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:48,520
to be taken care of.
And they used to think right,

442
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:53,200
But now it's let let me see if I
can hand them off to someone who

443
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,400
will take care of them just as
well as I would.

444
00:25:55,800 --> 00:26:00,400
So those three things seem to be
the a combination of.

445
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,440
The hot topic nowadays?
Yes.

446
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,600
So what's your process or what
kind of advice would you give to

447
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,840
someone that comes to you and
says, hey, I'm looking to

448
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,720
potentially sell my business?
They don't know if they want to,

449
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:13,760
they're thinking about it.
How would you advise them and

450
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,960
help them make that decision?
I will tell you that most of the

451
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,600
time the people are starting to
think of selling their business.

452
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:23,880
There's an acute issue that has
occurred.

453
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:28,400
It may be like someone just
ended up in the hospital, or it

454
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:34,120
may be that someone has just
gotten a offer of, hey, I might

455
00:26:34,120 --> 00:26:38,920
be interested in your business.
Sign this letter of intent, LOI,

456
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,760
and then we'll talk or sign this
non disclosure agreement.

457
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,680
And then, you know, we want you
to go open Kibono.

458
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,040
But we're not really that
serious and we're just dating

459
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:50,960
everyone along the way, you
know?

460
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:56,640
And so at that point, if that's
the first time they're thinking

461
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:58,040
about it, it's almost like it's
too late.

462
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,120
And I will tell you that there
are very, very ruthless people

463
00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:08,160
out there that are, you know.
They don't have your intentions

464
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,800
or your.
Your best intentions.

465
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:12,320
Your best interests?
Yeah.

466
00:27:14,120 --> 00:27:19,640
They're, they're almost like,
oh, here, let me, I, I use this

467
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:23,320
really bad analogy, but it, it,
it, it's probably more true than

468
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,920
we would like to think.
It's almost like they go to 10

469
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,240
different girls all in in high
school and say I want to take

470
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,040
you to the problem, I want to
take you to the problem, I want

471
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,040
to take you to the problem.
And none of them realize that

472
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:36,720
he's telling this to 10
different girls I know.

473
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:40,000
A guy that did that.
And is he still alive?

474
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:45,400
I haven't since high school.
But, you know, and everyone

475
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,400
goes, oh, hey, I'm attractive
and you know what not.

476
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:53,840
And they start, you know,
getting, you know, getting

477
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:58,240
excited about it.
And he's like, I'm only asking

478
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,480
10 different people because I'm
really zeroing on this person,

479
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:06,080
but I don't want anyone to know
who really is the person I'm

480
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,240
zeroing in on.
And so people get used a lot.

481
00:28:09,360 --> 00:28:13,120
And so if if that's the first
time they start thinking about

482
00:28:13,120 --> 00:28:16,800
it, there is an emotional
danger, there is a legal danger

483
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:18,160
there.
They can get themselves into a

484
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,920
hot water way, way, way, way,
way too quickly.

485
00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:28,000
So if someone in I told my
clients this, you know, well in

486
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,640
advance of any of that
occurring, you really need to

487
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:35,880
start thinking about what is
both your succession plan and

488
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:37,760
your exit strategy.
You got to understand that those

489
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,440
are two different things.
The succession plan is what is

490
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,240
the if there's an acute issue,
someone is dead, someone ends up

491
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,680
in the hospitals, we have a
catastrophe.

492
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,760
How does this business continue
on?

493
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:56,440
What is the continuity of
continuity of government

494
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,120
continuity of business plan
that's going on?

495
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,280
And then at the same time, you
know, once you kind of get the

496
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,880
how do we protect it mindset in
place, then you go, all right,

497
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:14,640
how do we start thinking about
wonder what terms do you want to

498
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,240
plan on getting out?
Because we're all going to get

499
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,280
out of our businesses.
You have one of three choices.

500
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,080
You're either going to retire,
die, or go insane.

501
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:23,880
That's.
Right.

502
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,800
Choose what?
So, you know, you might as well

503
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,160
start thinking about all right,
what happens if we die?

504
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,320
We're going insane.
OK, that's the acute issue.

505
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:37,760
Now let's talk about how, what
does retirement look like and if

506
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,040
if they're willing to accept
that, then we can start the

507
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:45,920
process of putting in both the
estate planning structure, the

508
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,520
legal structure, the financial
structure, the operational

509
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:51,880
structure.
Those are kind of your four

510
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,840
major components that need to be
put in place before they ever

511
00:29:55,840 --> 00:30:01,880
start thinking about really what
is going to be the person who

512
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:06,080
the ideal buyer, because if you
don't have those four things in

513
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,080
place, then it's just going to
be a crash of burn down the

514
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:10,960
road.
So to recap, the four things

515
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,600
are.
The state plan, the legal

516
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,560
structure.
So there's the plan structure,

517
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,760
the legal structure, the legal
structure, the financial

518
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:22,520
structure and the operational
structure.

519
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:27,920
Those are the four which.
Is a great segue because my next

520
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,520
question to you is if someone, a
business owner approaches you

521
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:34,040
early, which that's always the
goal before they're exiting or

522
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,720
selling and who would be the key
players that they need to have

523
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,960
in their circle, you as the
estate planning attorney, but

524
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,120
what else would they need?
OK.

525
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:48,440
So obviously the estate plan
attorney and hopefully the

526
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,760
estate planning attorney,
business attorney, whether

527
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:57,120
that's one attorney who
practices both areas or a lot of

528
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,720
times it's the estate planning
attorneys, one attorney, the

529
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:04,520
business attorney is the other,
since those two can think in

530
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,800
similar terms.
We're going to get to the M&A

531
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,480
attorney down the road.
And then on the finance side,

532
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:16,560
it's the financial advisor, the
accountant, the and there are

533
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:18,880
really are kind of two different
kind of accountants.

534
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:21,480
You, you have the accountant
who's been looking in the

535
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:23,720
rearview mirror and then you
need the accountant who's

536
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:28,360
thinking forward.
So you know, because we've got

537
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:32,200
to think of the tax structure
that's going to occur both

538
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:37,000
retroactively and prospectively
as well as OK, where is how are

539
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:41,600
we going to fund your lifestyle
if you are no longer working in

540
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:48,720
the business, if the business is
covering some of the expenses

541
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:53,040
that you now have to cover
yourself, just the loss of

542
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,520
income, the loss of identity,
things along those lines all

543
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,240
have to all wrap up in that
financial component.

544
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:00,960
Loss of tax write offs, I'm
sure, yeah.

545
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:02,880
Yes.
And then you could.

546
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,040
So those are those key players
and then you get to the

547
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:10,440
operational side of all right,
literally how you know who's

548
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:14,720
going to be the succession,
who's going to be the management

549
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,960
team, who is going to be How do
we restructure this operation?

550
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:23,520
When most businesses start,
they're started by one or two to

551
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:27,400
people a lot of times who play
butcher, Baker, Candlestick

552
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:28,720
maker and.
Everything.

553
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,080
And then, you know, it's like,
OK, I can't do everything, so

554
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,560
I'm going to hire a receptionist
or I, I can't do everything.

555
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:37,720
I'm going to hire a marketing
person.

556
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,040
You know, they think of those
things, but they never stop and

557
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,400
think about, OK, what are all of
the areas of responsibility that

558
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:48,400
I have continued to maintain?
And how are we, how is this

559
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:52,040
going to, how am I going to be
be able to be replaced because

560
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,240
someone's got to do what I'm
doing?

561
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,560
And therein lies a very
interesting psychological

562
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,800
problem because I have watched
business owners go through loss

563
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:03,800
of identity.
It is like after.

564
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:07,920
Selling.
Even before selling just Oh my

565
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,800
word, I didn't realize all the
things that I have continued to

566
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,200
be responsible for because it it
just kind of creeped up on them

567
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:18,400
and then when they go, but how
am I going to give this to

568
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,440
someone else?
No one else can do it as well as

569
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,760
I can or, OK, someone else can
do it better than I can.

570
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:26,680
Oh, no.
You know, I, they feel as if

571
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:31,320
they're like a failure or
there's just, I'm going to tell

572
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:35,440
you, there's a sense of loss, of
identity and there's almost a

573
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,400
grieving process like someone
died.

574
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:39,640
Right.
Yeah, I can definitely believe.

575
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:41,880
That and so when.
People say your business is your

576
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,640
baby, so.
Or you're jealous.

577
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:50,960
Mischief sometimes, but you know
that that has to be dealt with.

578
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,560
So you want to toss in something
that most people think about

579
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:55,760
blood a counselor or a
therapist?

580
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,680
Is.
Truly, or a life coach or a

581
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:03,560
business coach or something like
that is truly helpful for that.

582
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,440
That's good.
What so you you talk about how

583
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,800
business centers should be kind
of considering this all

584
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,320
throughout the journey, but
businesses are dynamic and ever

585
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,840
changing.
So how often should they revisit

586
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:17,480
the idea of the financial plan
and state planning in case there

587
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:21,159
is, or whenever the day comes, I
should say, that they decide to

588
00:34:21,159 --> 00:34:24,880
sell?
The first time that they think

589
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:26,600
about it is before they ever
start the business.

590
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,679
Before they start the business.
Yes, and so.

591
00:34:29,679 --> 00:34:31,080
That's early planning right
there.

592
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,120
Because I have come to the
conclusion that if you don't

593
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:39,600
think through what is my exit
strategy going to look like and

594
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,600
it will change over time.
But if you don't stop and think

595
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:47,840
about how is my exit plan
strategy going to to look like,

596
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,080
at least as we're beginning this
business, then you really are

597
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:55,840
not ready to start a business
that's serious about it.

598
00:34:55,960 --> 00:35:01,640
Because if you can tell me what
the end goal looks like, then

599
00:35:01,720 --> 00:35:04,720
you can tell me how we need to
structure things today.

600
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,120
But if you don't know what that
end goal looks like, it's almost

601
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,400
like, OK, we're going to take a
journey, but where are we going?

602
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:14,040
I have no idea.
Well, then should we go north or

603
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:18,160
South or east or West for the
coal line?

604
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:19,560
Yeah.
And that's how a lot of people

605
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:23,920
live their lives.
And I believe in this so much

606
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,480
that if you come to me and say,
I want to start a business and I

607
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:28,040
say, all right, what's the exit
plan?

608
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:30,080
Just tell me what the exit plan
is.

609
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,840
I understand that it may change,
but just tell me what your

610
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,120
current exit plan is.
And you go, I don't have one, I

611
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:37,200
won't form your business for
you.

612
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:40,800
That's great.
That is how important it is.

613
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:42,720
Yeah, start with the end of
mind.

614
00:35:42,720 --> 00:35:44,840
I think that's a line that you
use a lot, isn't it?

615
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:45,960
With the end of mind.
There we go.

616
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:47,480
Do you have?
An idea of how much your

617
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:51,120
business is worth at all times
so that if someone does come to

618
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,200
you with one of these fake
offers that we talked about

619
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:57,440
earlier.
There there is a danger in over

620
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:01,760
analyzing and it's kind of like
I just invested in a company.

621
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:03,640
Now let me check, check the
stock market.

622
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,120
No, that's not, that's not
necessarily the best course of

623
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:13,960
action, but at least as you're
like what I found is in a

624
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,320
business owner's life cycle,
there is going to be a major

625
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,840
event every three years that
it's going to be a major event

626
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:22,680
in their personal life and
there's going to be a major

627
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:23,880
event in their professional
life.

628
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,640
So it those two don't always
coincide.

629
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:32,480
So as if they have children,
they can see the children

630
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:36,400
growing up and children kind of
evolve or grow up in kind of a

631
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,760
four year old cycle.
Zero to 4 is very different than

632
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:44,080
5 to 9 and 10 to 14 is very
different than 15 tonight.

633
00:36:44,240 --> 00:36:48,600
OK.
For business, it tends to be 0

634
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:57,800
to 3/4 to 6/7 to 9:10 to 12:00.
So if you think about it that

635
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:03,120
once you understand that
reality, then you're going to

636
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:07,280
find that there is a tweak that
has to occur roughly every three

637
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:12,680
years or anytime you exceed 3
times your previous growth.

638
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:18,640
And what occurs?
It's almost like a reset of.

639
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:23,480
All right, everything's changed,
let's address it and download.

640
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:26,360
Interesting.
This is all new insights for me

641
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,920
because yeah, I don't have a
business, so I don't.

642
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,000
I mean, maybe you can say the
podcast is a business, but I

643
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,960
haven't thought about like the
process of what selling a

644
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,120
business looks like and what
all's involved with it.

645
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,000
I have no idea.
I've heard of people just

646
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,520
getting offers and that's when
they start thinking about it,

647
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:43,960
when they get offers.
But that's apparently the wrong

648
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:44,640
approach.
Yeah.

649
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:48,280
And I can see because it's
always better to be prepared for

650
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,240
anything, you know, especially
something as big as selling a

651
00:37:51,240 --> 00:37:54,240
business, you know, that we're
talking potentially millions of

652
00:37:54,240 --> 00:37:56,680
dollars here.
So always best to be prepared

653
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:58,080
for that.
Well, let me ask you this, would

654
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,600
you ever think about getting
married when someone thought I

655
00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:04,240
just asked you?
Good question, Chase.

656
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:08,920
No.
That's cool.

657
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,480
I would love to hear about some
of the obstacles that you've

658
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,400
come across in forming your
business and in your law career.

659
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,360
Just some of the, I guess
shaping moments maybe that you

660
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,560
can recall of.
Overcoming challenges and such

661
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:24,320
What are some of the major
challenges you've encountered

662
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:27,520
and were able to overcome?
Well, I, I will tell you that

663
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:33,720
the continuous challenge is
estate planning for Gates by

664
00:38:33,720 --> 00:38:39,560
necessity is a morbid subject.
And so overcoming the concept of

665
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:44,080
people wanting to face their own
mortality is just an interesting

666
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:46,000
experience.
But I will tell you this much,

667
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,080
Tim McGraw got a right in his
song You don't live like you're

668
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,560
dying once you do it.
It is truly a framing

669
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:57,120
experience.
And I have watched people once

670
00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:01,720
they have come to grips with
that, then there's a sense of

671
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:07,400
freedom to live life.
And so, so I take that challenge

672
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,240
on.
But I, I will, I will tell you

673
00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:17,160
that where we really have that
watershed moment of wait a

674
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,720
minute.
This is not just three different

675
00:39:19,720 --> 00:39:22,840
areas of law.
This is actually one continuous

676
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:27,440
spectrum of, of practice came as
a result of a case that I had

677
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:31,280
where I was appointed to by the
perfect court to sell a business

678
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:36,440
out of perfect.
And I, I started my due

679
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:41,120
diligence and what I found to be
the, the facts of the case were

680
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:45,840
very interesting because this
guy had a business that had five

681
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:49,360
employees.
So five other families all

682
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,000
relied upon his business for
their livelihood.

683
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:58,120
And he had done a very good job
of setting up this business that

684
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:03,040
he can run in his absence.
So the fact that he died was not

685
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:09,760
the death knell on this
business, but he he had two

686
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:17,280
young children, so minors.
He had a wife of a few years but

687
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:23,040
she did not have a whole lot to
do with business because she was

688
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:28,840
at home raising the kids and so
her his death was a loss of

689
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:33,800
income for their entire family.
And the irony of the situation

690
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:39,400
was his entire business was end
of life planning and he had no

691
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:40,920
will.
Wow.

692
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:46,240
And I went wow.
Yeah, the irony.

693
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:54,640
So that caused me to do a little
bit of digging and I looked at

694
00:40:54,640 --> 00:41:02,360
several years of court records,
and attorneys who pass away are

695
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:07,400
about 50% of the time dying
without a will themselves.

696
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:08,520
That's hard to believe.
That's crazy.

697
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:11,600
Yeah, I mean, this is truly the
physician.

698
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:13,240
Heal myself.
It is or.

699
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:18,800
It is it's have their shoes yes.
And I have seen city judges die

700
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:22,160
without without wills.
And it's like, you know, of all

701
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:29,880
people you know, and so I, I did
the best I could with this case

702
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:35,280
and I, I maximized what I think
was better than I expected

703
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:40,720
return on selling the business.
But I did realize, I asked the

704
00:41:40,720 --> 00:41:42,480
business broker who helped me
sell the business.

705
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:46,440
I said, what do you think this
business could have gotten if we

706
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:51,360
had had just a simple, you know,
an ideal, let it out corporate

707
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,960
structure or things like that?
He said.

708
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:55,840
We could have easily got four
times the.

709
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,120
Amount of money.
That we bought, we sold this

710
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:03,760
business for.
And I said, all right, what is

711
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:08,440
it that I'm missing out?
And I came back from court that

712
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:11,760
day and I went and just kind of
stared out the window and

713
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,040
watched traffic pass by my
office.

714
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:16,080
And I'm thinking, what am I
missing?

715
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:17,760
What am I missing?
What am I missing?

716
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:23,720
And it finally hit me, these are
three different practice areas.

717
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:29,040
This is 1 continuous practice.
And I called the meeting and the

718
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:30,320
staff kind of an impromptu
meeting.

719
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:34,600
I said, take a look at, consider
this reality.

720
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:38,640
And they all looked at me and
they said, no, those, those

721
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:40,640
areas of large, very, very
different, OK?

722
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,200
We can see the overlap between
estate planning and probate, OK,

723
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:46,960
But business in estate planning,
business probate.

724
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:51,680
And so I started charting it out
and I should have, you know, on

725
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:55,120
the spectrum, one continuance,
one step to the next to the next

726
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:58,960
to that.
And it was fun to watch their

727
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:03,720
eyes light up my work.
And that that case single

728
00:43:03,720 --> 00:43:05,840
handedly changed everything for
us.

729
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,960
Wow, so.
That's a very, yeah, a key

730
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,400
moment for sure.
Yeah, that's amazing.

731
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:13,920
So I mean, one of the questions
we're going to ask you today is

732
00:43:14,240 --> 00:43:16,720
what drives you to fight for
your clients.

733
00:43:16,720 --> 00:43:19,400
And despite all the stress and
the emotion that you deal with,

734
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:21,840
you know, what makes you do that
each and every day?

735
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:23,600
And I can only imagine it's
stories like this.

736
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:29,800
Well, that and I have gotten to
see Generations.

737
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,720
They told you I'm 53.
You would not know.

738
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:40,280
We are into our first 4th
generation class.

739
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:42,240
That's amazing.
Yeah.

740
00:43:42,720 --> 00:43:45,680
Given the status physicist diet,
the third generation, so to make

741
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:53,200
it to four, yes, that's amazing.
So that's, that's the fun the so

742
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:57,360
you can ask what drives us when
we can pull something from

743
00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:01,120
certain doom back and go, OK, we
can actually do something with

744
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:05,440
this.
You know, it's fun to have a

745
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:10,920
high 5 moment.
But also we will have people who

746
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:14,520
come into or just absolutely
devastated and then they give,

747
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:19,320
they kind of throw the
proverbial puzzle pieces on the

748
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:21,360
table and like, I don't even
have a box cover.

749
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:23,040
I don't know where does it
start?

750
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:28,520
And helping them put their life
in order and whether it's on the

751
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:32,160
seat plant side or on the
probate side, you know, just

752
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:36,880
being able to form some
semblance of order and watch

753
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:42,840
them go, OK, that was rough, but
we made it is absolutely.

754
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:46,560
That's rewarding, yeah.
Exactly.

755
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:49,160
That's cool.
We'll, we'll end it up here

756
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:52,160
shortly, but if you were
speaking to a young professional

757
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:54,800
that wants to go into law but
isn't quite sure what route to

758
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,760
take, what's the best advice
that you could you would offer

759
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:02,200
to him?
Law school is the ultimate role

760
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:10,520
art session Al Pacino in the
devil's advocate was asked you

761
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:16,280
know why the law you know if the
plot is Al Pacino place a devil,

762
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:25,200
but his personification is he's
a lawyer and it one scene he was

763
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:31,480
asked why law and his answer was
it's the ultimate backdoor.

764
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:37,040
Maybe the laws and everything.
So if someone is interested in

765
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:43,080
going to law, truly get as broad
of a liberal arts education as

766
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:49,720
you can and make your interests
and your hobbies as wide and

767
00:45:49,720 --> 00:45:54,720
varied as you can.
Someone gave me that advice and

768
00:45:54,720 --> 00:45:57,960
I found that it is truly a great
bit of advice.

769
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:04,120
But then just the law is a tough
field.

770
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:10,600
I'll make no buzz about it and
sometimes you go, that was rough

771
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:15,200
and there are easier ways of
making a living, but the rewards

772
00:46:15,240 --> 00:46:18,160
of helping someone.
So if you want to be a lawyer,

773
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:21,600
truly make sure that's what you
want to do.

774
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,520
But if it is, embrace it with
everything you've got.

775
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:27,080
Love it, love it.
And then we have to end on a fun

776
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:31,040
fact about Chase.
And that fun fact is a detail in

777
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:36,880
your will about your skull.
So please share with us what it

778
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:43,480
is that you've got written up.
The background on this is my

779
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:48,440
mother was a drama teacher.
I grew up on the stage, I and in

780
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:53,760
fact between college and law
school I was a stage actor.

781
00:46:53,800 --> 00:47:01,000
So I have always wanted to play
York in Hamlet.

782
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:04,320
And so I have a provision of my
will, and it does exist.

783
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:08,720
It says my skull will be donated
to the Greenville Shakespeare

784
00:47:08,720 --> 00:47:12,720
Society, that I can play York in
the rendition of Hamlet as long

785
00:47:12,720 --> 00:47:16,360
as I can play Don't match.
It amazing a future actor in

786
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:20,360
Hamlet here in Greenville, SC
Love it, love it.

787
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:21,560
Chase, thanks so much for
sharing your.

788
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:23,640
Thank you, Chase.
That was very insightful.

789
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:24,760
We appreciate it.
Thank you.