Caroline Avinger: Mastering Public Speaking and Entrepreneurship | EP 31

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Thank you all for tuning into
the Carolina Business Leaders

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Podcast, where we share stories
of local impact makers who

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carved their path through
perseverance, passion, and

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Carolina grits.
Today's guest is Caroline Buxton

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Avinger, a distinguished keynote
speaker and founder of Protocol

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SC, a leadership and
communication coaching

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organization here in the
upstairs.

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Caroline, thank you so much.
Thank you, Caroline for having.

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Me.
You're welcome and.

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You're obviously a very busy
season pretty regularly, but

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right now you have what, one of
your daughter's going to

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college, another at camp or
it's.

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It's just a hot mess.
And you got the transition of

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the business?
Yeah.

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Branding in the middle of of
totally transitioning my

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business.
My younger daughter is home for

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the summer from her freshman
year at Carolina.

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My older daughter has just
finished her gap year between

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Clemson and law school.
If you're running a small to mid

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size business, you know there's
simply not enough hours in a day

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to take care of all of your
business needs.

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From managing health insurance
to pay your role, procurement,

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advertising, you're going to
need some help to get that

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initial momentum going.
That's why I would partner with

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Quest Co.
They take care of all the behind

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the scenes administrative and HR
work, letting you focus on what

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truly matters, which is running
your business.

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That's QUESTCO.
Questco Visit questco.net or

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call your local Questco
representative Thomas Owens at

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864-477-0843 to get started
today.

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So she leaves for all school in
the fall.

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So I've got everyone home.
I've got dorm room furniture,

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I've got apartment furniture.
I'm stepping over all of it and

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still trying to run a business,
too.

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And I have to feed them
occasionally.

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Hey, Gay.
Could you share with us a little

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bit about what protocol SC is
and just your vision behind it?

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Yeah.
So I started protocol in I think

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it was 2008, 2009, right, when
there was an economic crash, but

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I was working at A at a company
that did public speaking

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training, so I was there.
This seemed like a natural

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extension of that going into
business etiquette.

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I went to the Protocol School of
Washington and got certified and

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it that was fantastic.
I love that.

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I love bringing that to the
company I was working with, was

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there for about four or five
more years and then left and

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really took the public speaking
part of it that I've been doing

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for a long time as well as the
business etiquette and launched

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protocol.
And that was, it was my

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business, but it was I treated
it more like a a side hustle for

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a long time.
And so you're working full time

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in addition to that.
No, I was doing that, but I was

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raising children and doing all
that.

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That's a.
Full time job that was.

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A full time job, but it was, it
was just part of what I did, but

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it wasn't an active business in
the sense that it was full time.

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You know, it was when I got to
it, I would work on it, sure.

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Yeah, that's how I feel like
most businesses start.

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Yeah, yeah.
And, and I loved it and I wanted

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to make it a business, but I
wasn't really sure how to.

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I was an English major.
I taught school for a number of

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years and never.
Teach English.

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I taught English Language Arts
and social Studies to middle

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schoolers, which was great
preparation for working with

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corporate groups because you
never know what you're going to

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get with middle school.
You truly never know what you're

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going to get on a daily basis.
So that that was a good start,

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but I didn't have really the
business acumen to launch a

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business.
I didn't really know what I was

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doing.
I did take a course for

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entrepreneurs, but it what it
didn't mesh with who I was and

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where I was in my life as well
as with my business.

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It was primarily, it was
primarily men who were speaking

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in this group and they had a
very different experience

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because they had someone at home
sort of holding down the Fort.

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I was the person running in the
Fort and I wasn't working 18

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hour days.
That was just not going to be a

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sustainable aspect of what I was
doing.

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So I thought, well, maybe I
shouldn't be an entrepreneur.

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It wasn't until really golly
around COVID 2018-2019 and they

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are that I started taking a
course with Sally Holder and he

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was rock star and realized, OK,
I I can be an entrepreneur and

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still be these other things too
and figure out how to balance

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it.
And it's it's never really

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balanced.
One of them is always getting

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short shrift.
But, but identifying that and

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knowing that that's just, that's
my, my business journey is that

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it's, it's a little bit
different from a traditional,

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you know, 18 to 20 hours a day,
every day and maxing out credit

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cards to get the business off
the ground and get that just

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wasn't where I was.
So was the experience with Sally

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Holder, was that like kind of
what helped you get that

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business acumen?
It really, yes, absolutely.

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And and she will say this is,
this is sort of your MBA without

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getting an MBA.
And that really helped me focus

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on who my customers were, what
my goals were.

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And since then I've, I don't
work with her anymore, but I've

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taken everything I've learned
from her and continued to carry

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it through.
So that was huge for me in

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really solidifying what my
business looked like and setting

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up boundaries about around what
that business was and not trying

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to be everything to everybody,
which I think can be a pitfall,

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particularly for entrepreneurs
and especially when they're

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starting out.
You know, well, I, I need that

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cash influx to launch this or to
do that.

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And so, you know, yes, I'll come
do whatever it is that you need

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me to do for your business, even
if it really doesn't apply to

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what I do.
And getting out of that mindset

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and, and being able to say no to
some clients because they

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weren't a right, they weren't
the right foot was a huge lesson

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that I learned and still
learning, still learning that

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every once in a while that
creeps back in of I should just

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do this.
But just because you can do it

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doesn't mean you have to.
That's great.

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And you mentioned public
speaking.

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Is that something that you've
always done naturally good at

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had to learn?
Give us some history there.

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I as a public speaker that that
if you went back and spoke to,

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you know, my parents when I was
little, friends, teachers, they

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would at that time, they would
have been shocked that I would

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do anything like this.
I was painfully shy.

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That's.
Me.

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That was terrible.
And I was panicking.

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My face hurts red without.
Your medicine to give me safe

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process.
So it was, it was really tough

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and I was very quiet.
I spoke very low.

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I, I just, I didn't put myself
out there.

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And in 6th grade, I had a
teacher, Missus Patterson, whose

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daughter lives in Greenville.
But she would sit at the back of

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the classroom when we had
reports of any kind when I got

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up to speak.
And I didn't get to sit down

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until she could hear me.
And that was horrific.

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It was awful but it did push me
as.

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Such a young age though. 6th
grade is.

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That's for me.
It was like 12th grade.

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It didn't occur to me to go home
and complain to my parents.

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I just did it because that's
what Miss Patterson said to do.

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OK, I'll do it, you teacher
pleaser.

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So that was a good thing.
And from there I started pushing

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myself out a little bit.
I tried out for cheerleading,

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which you know, that is.
Loud, public, outgoing.

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Then I took classes and I got to
college and I took a public

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speaking class.
And the second time I was on

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stage, I completely blanked.
My mind went blank.

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Everything just fled.
And the fact that I didn't pass

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out because all I could see was
just black in front of my eyes.

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There's nothing there but the.
Worst nightmare?

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And so I've been there.
I've been in everyone's worst

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nightmare because I was the only
freshman in the class there.

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It was all upperclassmen, cute
upperclassmen, boys, which

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really just totally humiliated.
So I've, I've been to

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everybody's worst nightmare.
I've done it.

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I'm still standing and I'm doing
it for a living.

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So I feel like that gives me a
little bit of a different

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perspective when I'm working
with people, especially when

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they're nervous or have had a
bad experience, I completely

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empathize with that and am able
to help them move out of that.

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Do you think hitting kind of
that rock bottom per SE in the

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public speaking like helps you
progress later down the road?

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Well, where, how, how much
worse?

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So it, it did it really being
there.

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And then I went to work with the
Buckley School of Public

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Speaking in Camden for a number
of years and that was really

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learning different techniques
and things like that from Mr.

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Buckley was enormously helpful.
And while my style is very

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different from what I did there,
it's still about finding people

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where they are and and getting
them to move to where they need

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to be in a way that's
comfortable to them.

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Do you think that your public
speaking, I mean, I guess what

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kept your interest with it after
all those years after you kind

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of failed with it?
It wasn't your natural tendency.

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What kind of why'd you keep?
Am I have glutton for

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punishment?
It's really an adrenaline rush.

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It's bungee jumping for nerds,
is what I like to say.

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I mean, I'm, I'm not going to
get out bungee jump, but I get

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up on a stage and I get that
adrenaline rush that I think is

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what those extremes enthusiasts
find.

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I, I get up in front of a group
of people and it's here we go

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and it's, it's a little
addictive.

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I like it.
I don't, I don't, I still get

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nervous, but that's not a
problem.

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I use that to give energy and
and to keep me on my toes.

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I don't want to get complacent
about it.

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I'm very similar to you in that
respect.

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Do you get nervous at all when
you're speaking?

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You feel like, I feel like
you're just like natural and you

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just.
I enjoy it so I don't have a ton

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of nerves with that, but I get
to practice it.

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I can't relate to that.
Like, no matter what, even if

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it's like at the Toastmasters
meeting, like I'll have a little

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bit of nerves.
Just which is a good thing.

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It is.
It gives you a.

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Little energy, yes.
And as long as you don't let it

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control you, yeah, it it keeps
you again, from being

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complacent.
And I've seen people get up on

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stage and they're all cool and
talking and, and they it's all

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about them and it's not about
the audience.

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Yeah, I hate when they're too
cool.

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Yeah, it's.
Like, this is like, you're

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putting me to sleep almost.
Yeah.

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I want you to bring some energy
with you.

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But actually, like a football
game, like being an athlete back

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in high school, like game day, I
was always like, you had some

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butterflies.
Yes.

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And so I that's like the only
thing that gives me butterflies,

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that one.
I love that.

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It's the adrenaline ride.
You're a junkie too, and it and

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it is.
You know, when you're too cool

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about it and too complacent, I
think you forget that it's about

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the message and it's about the
people who are listening to you

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and you are there for their
benefit and for the benefit of

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your message.
And if if you forget that and it

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becomes all about I'm such a
good public speaker and I'm so

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cool up here, then that is going
to be a turn off for your

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audience.
And the whole point of your

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being there is to communicate
something, and that's going to

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get lost.
Yeah.

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Are there some public speakers
that you model yourself after or

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that you see as great examples
or certain traits that you want

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to take from them?
I look at anyone who interviews

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other people because they are
they're listening and they're

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bouncing their ideas from what
the other person is saying.

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And I think so much of being a
good communicator is being a

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good listener.
So.

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And yeah, it's hard to say who
in particular.

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Yeah, I look at any of the the
great reporters.

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I mean, I love Katie Couric and
watching her interview people,

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00:11:58,680 --> 00:12:04,720
Kristen Welker and they they
listen and they can turn the

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conversation based on what
they're hearing and go and that

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00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:12,000
direction or if they have a
specific point that they're

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trying to get across to their
listeners, they'll stick to

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their guns on it.
So I like watching them.

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As far as public speakers in
general, I, I thought about that

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coming in and I can't really
pinpoint anyone in particular,

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00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:28,920
but what I, I can tell you is I
do love commencement speakers.

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I love watching you because they
are there to impart wisdom and

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experience and they want the
people in the audience to hear

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what they have to say.
And I love that because it is

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about the audience.
You know, a good commencement

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00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:49,280
speaker has a message and they
are, they do whatever they can

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to get it across.
One who isn't good is up there

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00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:54,120
just sort of showcasing
themselves.

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00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:56,800
And so I think that really
highlights what makes a good

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00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:00,920
speaker versus what makes a bad
speaker is are you caring for

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00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:02,200
your message?
Are you caring for your

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00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,280
audience?
So there's also a lot of bad

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public speakers and even at like
a high corporate level, I'll

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give you an example of, I think
of a pretty famous 1.

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00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:13,120
Mark Zuckerberg was a terrible
public speaker back when that

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00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:16,080
Cambridge Analytical analytical
stuff happened about 10 years

251
00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:18,680
ago, and he had to make public
announcements.

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It was just as short as
possible, been very awkward.

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00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,640
He's obviously gotten better at
it over the years, but how would

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00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:27,760
you coach someone like that
that's at such like a high level

255
00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:29,400
and just a terrible public
speaker?

256
00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,000
First of all, figure out what's
going on there.

257
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What what's making them nervous?
Are they unsure of their

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message?
Are they not really excited

259
00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:38,920
about it?
Are they trying to be someone

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00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:42,160
they are not?
And kind of get to the bottom of

261
00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:45,040
that.
And then really focus on what,

262
00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:48,560
what is your message?
Why is why is it something

263
00:13:48,560 --> 00:13:51,120
you're passionate about?
What is important about it?

264
00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:53,440
Which I think for him he's
there's nothing passionate about

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00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:57,600
it because he was in trouble.
Yeah, but if you're if you're,

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if you're in trouble, yeah,
acknowledge it, I guess in that

267
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case.
But you also, you have to craft

268
00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,800
your message in a way that
you're getting across why

269
00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:15,200
whatever it is that you did or
didn't do was important at the

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00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:18,400
time.
Not as an excuse, but but still

271
00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:22,440
infuse your passion for the
product, for the service into

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00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:26,160
what it, whatever it is you're
talking about, because that

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00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:30,160
lends credibility.
And you know, if if you and I, I

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00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:32,880
can't remember, I've seen.
This It's been so long, so many

275
00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:34,360
times.
He's gotten so much.

276
00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:35,960
He's got a lot better over the
years.

277
00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,000
This is when he first started
about 10-12 years ago.

278
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,720
He was notoriously terrible.
If you're trying to hide

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00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:46,680
something and the audience can
tell, they they can pick up on

280
00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:48,880
it.
And I, I look at politicians,

281
00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,920
for example, and it doesn't
matter what side of the aisle

282
00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,040
they're on when they're selling
something that's really not

283
00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,640
grounded in truth.
Do you think I'm an idiot?

284
00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:01,400
I, I see it, the audience sees
that.

285
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:06,040
And typically especially with
people who are not trying to

286
00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:09,320
gain the system, I guess, but
who are trying to get a message

287
00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:13,680
across if their fear is the
audience, most of the time an

288
00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,200
audience is a friendly group.
Most.

289
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:18,200
The audience doesn't want to see
you do well.

290
00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:20,160
That's one thing I have learned
exactly.

291
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:24,320
And most of them are really glad
it's not there up.

292
00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:28,000
There, right?
So they're going to forgive a

293
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,840
lot if there's a stumble, if
there's a misstep or or

294
00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:32,800
something.
As long as you own it and keep

295
00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:36,240
going and stay true to who you
are, stay true to your message.

296
00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:38,720
That's great.
We're going to dive further into

297
00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,400
that here in a second, but just
to get back real quick to high

298
00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,240
school, college days, did you
know what you wanted to do

299
00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,520
career wise when you were in
high school and college?

300
00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,600
I wanted to be an attorney.
I thought that I would go to law

301
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:51,640
school so I'm insanely jealous
of my child.

302
00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:54,400
Which school is she going to
she's.

303
00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:55,840
Going to South.
Carolina, oh, that's great.

304
00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,960
From Clemson, That's great.
It's house divided for her.

305
00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:01,760
It's already a house divided,
but now she's getting to

306
00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:04,760
experience it herself.
Yeah, but I thought I would go

307
00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:06,640
to law school.
And I did work in a law firm for

308
00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:11,320
a while after college.
And when I did that, I think

309
00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:16,320
that it, it was really right on
the cusp of changing how women

310
00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:20,040
went through being an associate
and becoming a partner.

311
00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:23,000
You know, you went through and
you were on the partner track or

312
00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:27,400
you were on the mommy track.
And I worked with some women who

313
00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:30,200
were older, who had, who were on
the partner track, who had

314
00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:34,280
children, and they would come to
me and say, don't do it.

315
00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,120
It's just it's not worth it.
And at the time, I didn't see

316
00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:40,920
past that.
I think the women that came

317
00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:44,280
along at the time I would have
are the ones who changed it and

318
00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:47,240
turned it into something that
was a little bit more family

319
00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:50,920
friendly and not career
sacrificing if you decided to

320
00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:53,840
become a mom.
And at the time, I just, I

321
00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:55,960
didn't know any better.
I didn't have enough role models

322
00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,480
out there saying, oh absolutely,
continue doing that.

323
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:02,040
So I went into teaching as an
English major.

324
00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,200
That seemed a logical choice,
but I also loved working with

325
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,119
kids.
So I did that for a while.

326
00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:13,599
I enjoyed it, but left, went to
the Buckley School at that point

327
00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:17,640
realized I really liked working
with adults and helping coach

328
00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:21,960
people through their public
speaking fears and later through

329
00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,599
helping them find their
professional presence and what

330
00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:29,480
made them a good leader.
And that's where I sort of

331
00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,840
pivoted into that and went into
the the business etiquette and

332
00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:34,520
combined that with the public
speaking.

333
00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:37,040
So you might have shared this,
how did you get first introduced

334
00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:41,800
to the Buckley School?
I was, I had stopped teaching

335
00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:47,080
and was working in a gift shop
and a woman who worked with the

336
00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:50,320
school had me house sitting and
her husband had gone to

337
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:51,680
Davidson.
I went to Davidson and she said,

338
00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,160
what are you doing working in a
gift shop with an English degree

339
00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:57,920
and an education master's and
all.

340
00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:01,360
And so I'm just bidding my time
until I find something else.

341
00:18:01,360 --> 00:18:02,640
And she said, well, I've got
something for you.

342
00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,360
And she set me up with the
Buckley School and I worked

343
00:18:06,360 --> 00:18:09,760
there about 12:00, 14 years I
guess.

344
00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:15,360
And towards the end, Mr. Buckley
was ill and was setting up his

345
00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:18,000
succession plan.
He asked me to be president of

346
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:21,440
the school.
And so he and I started working

347
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,440
on that transition.
He passed away before the

348
00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:28,760
transition was solidified.
Things did not work out, so I

349
00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:34,000
went a separate way.
And that's when I decided to

350
00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:36,560
take the business etiquette
portion that was really my

351
00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:40,560
portion of it and add the public
speaking because I've been doing

352
00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:42,160
it for so long that I could do
it.

353
00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:46,480
And also had all that experience
of being a terrified public

354
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:50,320
speaker and getting pushed out
of my comfort zone and taking

355
00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:54,360
the public speaking courses in
college and, and really finding

356
00:18:54,360 --> 00:18:57,800
my voice as a speaker.
Sure that I could combine that.

357
00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:02,880
So I've kind of done a couple of
different things, but there's

358
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:05,040
always been a teaching element
to it really.

359
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:07,760
See if like you're naturally
like a teacher at heart.

360
00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:10,440
I like doing that, yeah.
So one thing you kind of hinted

361
00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,040
on there was you had a low
period if you didn't really know

362
00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:15,360
what you wanted to do, which I
feel like some of our audience

363
00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:19,320
might be stuck in that.
How would you advise someone

364
00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:20,800
that feels like they're in that
period?

365
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,360
I know a number of of young
people who are in that.

366
00:19:24,360 --> 00:19:26,160
I know a number of people who
are my age.

367
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:32,520
And I actually, I weren't
corporate for about four or five

368
00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:34,720
years.
I saw that you had Gary

369
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:38,520
Bernadette and I worked at Amigo
for about 5 years.

370
00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:42,560
And you love being in that
corporate environment.

371
00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,000
Loved the people I worked with,
but knew that I didn't want to

372
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,360
be in an HR role.
And it was HR and training and

373
00:19:48,360 --> 00:19:52,560
development with them and knew I
wanted to come back out into my

374
00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:56,520
own business, but I wasn't
really sure what I wanted to do

375
00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,000
with it.
And over the last couple of

376
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:03,680
years it's been evolving and
figure out what, what feeds my

377
00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:08,000
soul, what do I love doing based
on what I'm already doing.

378
00:20:08,120 --> 00:20:11,280
And it's not just just the
public speaking or just the

379
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,640
business etiquette there.
It's it's guiding people and

380
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,120
moving them where they need to
be in a number of different

381
00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:23,640
areas and when I'm working with.
Younger people who don't have an

382
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,120
idea of what they want to do,
it's really just having the

383
00:20:26,120 --> 00:20:28,520
conversation, looking for a
mentor, finding a group of

384
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:32,000
people who are doing the things
that you're interested in and

385
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,760
seeing how did they convert that
into a career?

386
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,400
Is it, is it becoming an
entrepreneur?

387
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:43,160
Is it finding what is feeding
your passion within your job?

388
00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:47,200
Or, you know, sometimes you just
have to take a job and it's not

389
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:51,320
the thing that feeds your soul,
but finding something outside of

390
00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:54,760
that so that you are coming to
that job that you don't

391
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:58,520
particularly love with your full
self and giving it your all and

392
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,200
finding out what in it does
speak to you.

393
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:06,400
And and using that as a
guidepost for what is your next

394
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:07,760
step?
So if I have your story correct,

395
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,080
you start a protocol you said
back in 2008, yes.

396
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:12,640
And so you took some other jobs
along the routes.

397
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,800
So it wasn't always we're doing
this and this is, this is full

398
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,360
throttle, we're going to do this
and I enjoy it, I love it, I

399
00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:20,840
want to pursue it.
But you also just kind of had

400
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:24,360
some other additional jobs along
the way.

401
00:21:24,360 --> 00:21:28,280
And now you are like you've been
doing it for what 15 years now

402
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,240
and it's obviously grown a ton
and you're you've kept it alive,

403
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,880
which is very impressive.
So that's a cool little journey.

404
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:41,560
I told you earlier it was a side
hustle to begin with and more

405
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:45,720
because I was building it and
also raising a family and my

406
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,040
husband is a has his own
business.

407
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:53,640
So it was sort of supporting
that and then you know, he got

408
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:57,360
established.
I left Amico and even while I

409
00:21:57,360 --> 00:22:02,120
was at Amico, I was doing some
of this on the side and decided,

410
00:22:02,120 --> 00:22:03,280
you know what, we're just doing
it.

411
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:05,640
We we are full on and how many
years?

412
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,600
But at that point, how many
years was between that and 1st

413
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:14,720
starting it?
Oh golly, so 2008 to 2021. 22,

414
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:17,720
yeah, over 10 years, yeah.
And so it's a journey.

415
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,360
It is a journey.
And I'll let other things take

416
00:22:20,360 --> 00:22:22,880
precedence that needed to take
precedence at the time.

417
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,640
And I had the luxury of letting
them take precedence, but I also

418
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,960
had the luxury of still devoting
time to protocol.

419
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,800
You had the flexibility, yeah.
There was some flexibility there

420
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,040
because protocol at that time
was not paying them, you know,

421
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:41,240
it was just, it was there for me
to figure out and it, it became

422
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,680
something completely different
as I've moved along.

423
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,960
That's great.
So when you did start protocol,

424
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:51,040
you know day one was probably
very exciting, but lots of

425
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,600
moving parts I imagine and then
year one lots of great.

426
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,280
So what were some of those
obstacles or challenges in that

427
00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:58,360
first year as you were starting
your business?

428
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:02,000
The first year, I remember my
first client, the very first

429
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,920
person I did a training for and
I walked in and she said, I

430
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,400
don't know why I'm here and my
boss is making me kind of, I

431
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:13,600
just think this is ridiculous
and not not the most auspicious

432
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:17,840
way to start business.
And I thought, OK, we've got to

433
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:22,440
win you over and and we and I
did, but she said this was

434
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,000
great.
I didn't realize I needed all of

435
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:28,640
this.
So it it that I, I went to where

436
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:30,520
she was.
I did not just immediately

437
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:31,840
start.
Well, that's fine.

438
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:33,640
But this is what we're doing is
stick to a plan.

439
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,680
The plan went out the window and
I adjusted to meet her where she

440
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,440
was and talked through.
Well, why do you think that he

441
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,440
has sent you here and what do
you hope to get out of it?

442
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:46,800
Because you have to be here.
So you have to be here because

443
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,040
your boss sends you.
So better make the best use of

444
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,040
his time and his money.
Right, right.

445
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:56,800
Exactly.
So it was, that was that was an

446
00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:04,200
obstacle, Excuse me, OK.
But in terms of business in

447
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:09,960
general, I think it goes back to
finding your, what was my focus.

448
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,040
There are a lot of people out
there doing public speaking.

449
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:13,240
I mean, you're doing
Toastmasters.

450
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,600
There are other people who are
coaches, there are a lot of

451
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:19,400
people doing business etiquette.
What makes mine a little bit

452
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:23,920
different?
How do I what, what is my value

453
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:25,520
that's separate from other
people's?

454
00:24:26,120 --> 00:24:30,280
And part of it is my experience
as a terrible public speaker

455
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:34,640
starting out and really, but
really nailing that down over

456
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:39,520
the years because I, I wanted to
build my business and I thought

457
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:41,640
by building my business that
meant I needed to get as many

458
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,640
clients as I could, which.
Makes sense?

459
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,840
And which and and you?
Have to grow appropriately,

460
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:48,080
which is.
Helping You have to grow

461
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,640
appropriately and you have to
know when to say no.

462
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,920
And we build a little scar
tissue.

463
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,360
I've got some clients that
probably I should not have taken

464
00:24:57,360 --> 00:25:01,640
off over the years.
And that's, that was a learning

465
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,320
experience.
And at this point I'm now able

466
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:10,240
to say this is not this.
This is not what I do and really

467
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:15,160
focus on what it is that I do,
what value I bring as opposed to

468
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,680
just trying to be everything to
everyone to get my business

469
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:18,520
moving.
That's good.

470
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,080
So as part of your coaching,
whenever you are coaching

471
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,680
somebody, One of my worst fears
would be up.

472
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:25,760
I forget things and I'm nervous
occasionally.

473
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:27,880
I think we can all maybe not
you, but if there's.

474
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:29,320
A lot of us.
Can we all do?

475
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,440
If I were to be up giving a
speech and we're to could just

476
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,200
just completely blank, not like
stay not like to where I'm

477
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,920
passing out, but just to the
point where I actually don't.

478
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:41,360
I don't know what I was supposed
to say.

479
00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:43,920
Yeah, like how would you coach
someone to handle that kind of

480
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:45,320
mistake?
I thought that's worst case

481
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:46,640
scenario.
There could be obviously worst

482
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,440
mistakes, but.
I I I think it's worst case

483
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:49,920
scenario.
Yeah.

484
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:52,760
So just I don't know what I'm up
here for.

485
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:56,080
Yeah.
And really, again, you know, we

486
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,600
talked about the audience being
a friendly group, and you're

487
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:00,680
just experiencing their worst
nightmare for them.

488
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,480
So bring them along on that
journey with you.

489
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,040
Yeah, I'm.
I'm having a moment, and if

490
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,480
you've ever been on stage, you
probably understand this moment

491
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,560
and really communicate with
them.

492
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,240
Let them in on it.
Get the audience on your side

493
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,560
and just tell them because that
diffuses some of the tension

494
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,840
within you when you're not
trying to hide it from them.

495
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,080
I think part of it is I can't
let them know anything if you

496
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,040
tell them I'm having a moment.
I bet many of you have been

497
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,440
here.
Give me a second to check my

498
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,080
notes.
And I'm a big fan of notes.

499
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:32,600
Yeah, I think those are a great
thing.

500
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,840
Even if you don't use them, it's
a way, if you're totally

501
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,120
comfortable on stage, of keeping
you on track and not burning

502
00:26:40,120 --> 00:26:42,160
keeping.
Structured organization because

503
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:43,880
I can.
I struggle with an organization.

504
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,320
She gets on me about the podcast
because I'll take it wherever

505
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:48,920
and she's like we.
Have an organization.

506
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:50,440
Too.
And we have so many guests, I'm

507
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:52,040
like, let's put them on a
spreadsheet.

508
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:53,920
Let's make sure we know who
we're interviewing.

509
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,000
So it's a good thing we're
A-Team, though.

510
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:57,400
There's things he helps me with
so.

511
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,840
I'm getting from these insights,
it's something that would help

512
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:02,880
me is I'm always steering.
Worst case scenario, what do I

513
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,240
do if I freeze?
Well, if I practice the freeze,

514
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,080
if I practice the situation
where I forget, then I think

515
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,880
I'll feel more comfortable
because, hey, if worst case

516
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,160
comes up, I feel comfortable in
that situation because I've

517
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:16,160
practiced it.
Yeah.

518
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,240
So that's actually a good action
item for me that I'm going to

519
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:19,760
take in my public speaking
preparation.

520
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,040
Having a plan for what happens
if it all goes.

521
00:27:22,120 --> 00:27:24,680
Out having that plan and.
Then the other thing is

522
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,360
breathing and just taking that
moment because a lot of times

523
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,280
when you start to get nervous,
your chest gets tight.

524
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,000
If your chest gets tight, then
your breathing gets shallow.

525
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,280
If your breathing gets shallow,
you're not getting enough

526
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,720
oxygen, and panic is a response
to lack of oxygen.

527
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,280
So that's why my breathing kind
of changes sometimes as your

528
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,800
chest gets tight.
Just and pause, take a deep

529
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:50,680
breath and try to release all
that and and it really does help

530
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,840
taking that pause.
Don't fill it up with, but just

531
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,800
pause.
Has anyone ever come to you

532
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,480
because they struggle with their
face turning red when they're

533
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:02,160
speaking?
Because that's something I've

534
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,280
struggled with, that I don't
know how to turn it on, how to

535
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,120
turn it off.
Sometimes I'm not nervous and it

536
00:28:06,120 --> 00:28:07,520
happens.
Sometimes I'm nervous and it

537
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,000
doesn't like, I don't know.
And some people just naturally,

538
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,760
they start to get nervous or a
little bit of stress or in a

539
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,040
situation that may be new to
them, and they immediately start

540
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,200
turning red.
Yeah, my, my sister does that.

541
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:21,800
Her neck gets red when she
starts getting stressed out

542
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,520
about something or or passionate
about something even.

543
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:30,320
And I don't really know the
breathing, preparation, all of

544
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,120
those things, that's more of a
physiological response that I I

545
00:28:34,120 --> 00:28:36,400
don't know if you can control
that or not.

546
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,040
Yeah, I think breathing could
definitely help.

547
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,600
But one of my biggest struggles
in high school, particularly

548
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,640
like if the teacher was cold
calling, oh, my goodness.

549
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:45,480
Like I'm reading assignments or
something.

550
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,280
And if I got cold, cold, you
can, my face would be

551
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,720
immediately just like, so pink.
And I was like, there's nothing

552
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:52,440
I could do about it.
It was so.

553
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:54,960
And when I felt like getting
pink, it turned more pink.

554
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,360
And so I think from yeah, it was
the worst.

555
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,320
It was the absolute worst.
But over time, I think just more

556
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,720
experience, being more
comfortable with myself, like

557
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:06,840
trying not to care.
Like I know my face is red, but

558
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:10,360
I'm going to continue speaking.
Like it just takes a lot of

559
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,080
experience, I guess.
And that has gone down over

560
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,560
time.
But I was curious if there's a

561
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:18,000
coaching.
I do think the more you focus on

562
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:19,960
it, the worse it gets.
Probably so and.

563
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,200
Trying to divert your attention
to something else.

564
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:25,240
And part of that is preparation
too.

565
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:29,400
And being prepared and knowing
too, like you said, getting

566
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:34,640
that, practicing that worst case
scenario, it's a, it's a

567
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:36,680
pressure valve.
It releases some of that

568
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:40,800
pressure that that might
contribute to that, absolutely.

569
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,400
That's great.
One of Heath's favorite speaking

570
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,880
points is *, something they'll
always remember.

571
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,800
A Toastmasters signature.
So how have you seen that in

572
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,240
action in the speaking world?
I think when you're passionate

573
00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:00,480
about what you're talking about
or some element of it, you know

574
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,760
that he might be in sales and
you're talking about a medical

575
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:05,800
device, that's just not very
exciting.

576
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:10,400
I, I had a client who worked for
a company that discovered the

577
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:15,080
human genome and one of the
scientists was going to be out

578
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,600
there speaking.
And that was the last thing he

579
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,600
wanted to be doing.
His face turned the color of

580
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:27,760
these walls so Gray and he could
not get above a whisper when he

581
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,600
was speaking.
And finally, I said, what what

582
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:33,200
is the big deal about the human
genome?

583
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,320
I mean, is this like discovering
a new planet or a new element?

584
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,880
What, what, what is this?
And he started explaining it to

585
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,320
me.
And the more he started talking,

586
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:48,560
the more animated he became, the
louder and more articulate he

587
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:53,160
became because he was so excited
about the possible medical

588
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,200
repercussions of it and the
healing that it would create.

589
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:01,000
And just on and on, he got so
excited about that and that's

590
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:05,680
where his passion was.
And that's what led him forward

591
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:10,120
into, OK, I can do this because
I need other people to

592
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,480
understand why this is
important.

593
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:16,360
And if I keep all that
information to myself, then I'm

594
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:20,040
doing the world really and a
disservice.

595
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:26,320
So it's finding your passion and
really using that as a

596
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,560
springboard for your
communication because that's

597
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,680
what that's what's memorable.
It's when you're excited or you

598
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:38,040
or there's some element of it
that is important to your

599
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,520
audience or to you and you want
to communicate that importance.

600
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:45,400
That's really where you leave
your audience with something

601
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:49,240
that they're going to remember.
So I guess going back to to your

602
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,600
business that you've started,
what have been the most

603
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,280
difficult parts of kind of
keeping that alive over the

604
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:55,440
years?
I'm sure there's been times

605
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:57,160
we've thought about quitting.
I mean, there's been times I've

606
00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:58,720
thought about quitting the
podcast and we're just getting

607
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,080
started.
So I guess where is it?

608
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,680
Like I don't know what would be
some of the most difficult

609
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:09,200
things?
Yeah, Looking at being a solo

610
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:14,440
entrepreneur, like I told you
earlier, I, I work from home and

611
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,960
I'm, I'm by myself a lot and
which it suits me fine because

612
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:22,720
I'm also an extreme introvert
and getting out and building

613
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:26,400
connections has been something
that I have to be very focused

614
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,560
on and building those
relationships.

615
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:30,920
And there have been times I
thought, I'm tired of doing this

616
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,160
by myself.
And I do have a business partner

617
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:34,560
now that I work with
occasionally.

618
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,280
That's great.
And he and I are working on an

619
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:41,040
online course that we're
launching in the next couple of

620
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,920
weeks.
But that that has been an

621
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:48,800
important part of it because I
really lost momentum sometimes

622
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,720
over the years because I didn't
have anyone to bounce ideas off.

623
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:57,640
Seeking out business groups,
seeking out mentors, other

624
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,760
entrepreneurs who are in the
same boat, business coaches.

625
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:06,360
That has been huge in helping me
keep my momentum strong.

626
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,080
I know you have the Greenville
ladies.

627
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:14,280
I love that it's fun.
It it that's, that's important.

628
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,480
Having us finding a sense of
community.

629
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,920
The opposite to that has been a
challenge for me.

630
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,640
And that's boundaries.
And you know, working from home

631
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:29,040
means that I am home and I don't
have official office hours so

632
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:33,560
that other things can impinge on
that from a non work

633
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,480
perspective.
But it also means at 11:00 on a

634
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,480
Sunday night I might be working.
So trying to set boundaries

635
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,960
around what needs to have
boundaries has been the other

636
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,360
side of that.
That's very entrepreneurial

637
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,080
spirited be like, I mean, I
guess when you're, when you work

638
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,280
from home, you could be working
at all hours of the day and

639
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,040
there's it's how do you turn it
off, you know?

640
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:56,280
I.
Guess a carp.

641
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,800
Carp was a compartmentalize, I
guess.

642
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,280
Yeah.
And I try to keep my work mostly

643
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,880
down in my basement where my
desk is.

644
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,360
It's currently a storage area
for dorm.

645
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,960
So I've moved up to the kitchen
table in the dining room table.

646
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:18,080
And that that creep, that
physical creep through the house

647
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,880
has also turned into, oh, well,
let's just check emails or let's

648
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,239
just work on this Canva document
or something.

649
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:30,159
So I need to pull it all back
into one physical space and and

650
00:34:30,159 --> 00:34:32,280
let that be my boundary.
I would imagine that your

651
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,719
daughter that's going to law
school has had a huge advantage

652
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,600
just learning from you because
in law school we were obviously

653
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,400
going to be like debating people
or speaking out in front of

654
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,159
their classes and stuff.
And public speaking is very

655
00:34:42,159 --> 00:34:44,800
important for an attorney.
It is, it is.

656
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:49,000
And I work with several
different different Law Offices

657
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,840
with public speaking and
professional presence and the

658
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:56,159
business etiquette as well.
And I, I think looking at both

659
00:34:56,159 --> 00:35:00,400
of my daughters, they have seen
me build this business and go

660
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,640
from it being just sort of
something that mom does on the

661
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:06,240
side to this is an official
business, this is this is

662
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:08,480
working.
In full time you.

663
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:14,000
Know it's all the time and both
of them have very strong voices

664
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:18,200
in different ways and I like
that they have seen me coach

665
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:22,760
people to find their own voice
and I think that's really driven

666
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:27,440
them to each figure out what
theirs is and both very

667
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,360
different, which sometimes I
think how I raised.

668
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,960
You we can relate that I have
one sister 18 months apart.

669
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,280
We couldn't be more different.
We appreciate the differences,

670
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:40,760
but we ask the same question.
But I do think that they've seen

671
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:45,960
me do that and I hope that it's
had an impact on what they.

672
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:50,600
It has, I'm sure, I'm sure.
Obviously starting a business is

673
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:52,760
no easy feat.
You have to go through obstacle

674
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,480
after obstacle and to continue
it for as long as you have.

675
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,120
I mean, you've demonstrated
perseverance at like the

676
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,880
ultimate level.
So what would what does the term

677
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:04,960
Carolina grit mean to you when
it when you see other leaders in

678
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,200
the areas kind of going through
the same journeys?

679
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:17,200
Stubborn in fact, I work with
Barbara Stone and their can

680
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,560
talks and I worked with the man
last year who was blind and deaf

681
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:25,480
and which was a fantastic
experience, but he gave me my

682
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,400
sign.
So it it's not just spelling out

683
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:32,840
my name, but my sign is the sign
for stubborn and he picked up on

684
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,400
that.
So that being stubborn and not

685
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:41,520
letting the dips in momentum get
you down, but then also being

686
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,120
willing to take risks and
knowing that it doesn't

687
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:48,280
necessarily define you if you
fail, learn from it, get up,

688
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,280
move on to the next thing.
So the the stubbornness and the

689
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,800
persistence certainly go hand in
hand and being able to take

690
00:36:54,800 --> 00:37:01,160
risks over the years, I think my
innate stubbornness has has

691
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,640
helped me stay the course on it
for sure.

692
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,080
So if there is a young
professional, say a lady in her

693
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,520
mid 20s that wants to follow
your route and start her own

694
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,920
business and noses a long
journey ahead, what's the one

695
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:14,880
thing that you hoped that she
would take out of your story?

696
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,040
Don't be afraid to take risks.
Absolutely.

697
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:23,480
Just get out there and do it and
if you fail look at it as OK

698
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:27,320
what did I learn from this and
use that for the next step.

699
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,200
Which the famous Michael Jordan
quote is I've failed over and

700
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:31,720
over again, and that is why I
succeed.

701
00:37:31,720 --> 00:37:34,480
So there you go.
We can attest that, and I love

702
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:36,920
that quote.
We have to fail to learn, and

703
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:38,480
learning is what helps us
succeed.

704
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:39,320
So I love that.
Yeah.

705
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:41,640
Well, Caroline, that was great.
Thank you so much for sharing

706
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:43,800
all your insight with us and
we're excited to Share your

707
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:45,680
story.
Thank you, Caroline.